The Brexit Arms - All welcome. :-) :-)

[surferjet]

So .....how are we all this evening?

I was getting excited that the UK was going to guarantee me 14 weeks holiday in the white paper ...

Can't believe Diane Abbott threw a sickie yesterday.......actually, I can.

Coward.

But sadly not ...

you could just as easily argue that it was the EUs actions that pushed us into leaving so it should be the EU that makes the move. Or that going to live in a country where you are not a citizen makes your rights precarious

Very true.

How the fuck has that graph slipped through the net?

It just shows how incompetent all involved actually are.

My point is that as it is the UK's actions which have made the rights precarious, it is for us to make the first move.
Which we apparently did, but EU would not reciprocate pre negotiations.
(Although I am of the opinion that we should claim the moral high ground and guarantee their rights here regardless).

And as a matter of causation, I would argue that the only way to ensure the rights stay guaranteed to all is to remain.
And this is where you lose me.
I don't want to Remain, hence I voted to Leave - along with over 17 million other people (a majority of the voting electorate).

The interesting discussion is whether it is worth doing something which will put the rights at risk, what the rights should be risked in exchange for, and so on.
The only discussion is whether the EU will reciprocate, that's it.
There is no 'using of EU nationals in UK as bargaining chips' - no inkling that they will be used as 'trade-offs' for anything at all.
Simply - we will guarantee EU nationals in UK, if you reciprocate.
That's it.
Very, very straightforward.

Je Suis Diane

When everyone sees how successful the UK is outside the EU is it possible we could see other countries applying to join the UK. Ireland or France maybe?

Diane...already shown herself to be what she is in the past. I care not one jot for what she says or does. She has lost all credibility in my view a long time ago.

Bear - if you peel back the curtains and peer in at what people in charge are actually like, you will witness an extraordinary amount of incompetence. We, some people tend to think people in big jobs, should be there, or that people actually know what they are doing. None of us really know and many people in top jobs have no right to be there really...

This is one big reason why I had to vote out. Its hard enough to have one layer of impotence, but two!

A unilateral guarantee is one that happens whatever the other side does. So if we had given a unilateral guarantee then it would stay given, as it were

Don't be foolish jamie. There was no reason not to provide an economic impact assessment to show the direct economic benefits and costs in each sector of the best case scenario that we are trying to achieve.

If you have ever read a conservative government impact assessment, I'm guessing you already know that the standard of detail called for is not high!

I'm not surprised not to see one however since, as you rightly say, we are as likely to see an attempt to quantify the economic benefits of this process as to encounter an alien invasion - because the reason for leaving is that the will of the people mandates this course of action, as we learned last night. Or to put it another way, on our heads be it. Economic benefits and costs are irrelevant.

Figmentofmyimagination, so if they produced an economic impact assessment of the best case scenario, you wouldn't rip it to pieces as fantasy land? Don't you remember how massively wrong/damaging the economic forecasts of voting to leave the EU were?

Bank officials expect the UK economy will grow by 2pc this year. This is up from a forecast of 1.4pc in November and just 0.8pc last August.

" I would argue that the only way to ensure the rights stay guaranteed to all is to remain." Cecilede I'm sure you would, the point of the referendum was does the UK want to effect change and we voted in the affirmative. We don't want things to stay the same, no matter how badly you wish it were true.

jamie So no sector by sector impact assessment because people who don't agree might criticise it a lot and that could be damaging??

Now I see where you are coming from. You're not such a fan of democracy after all.

Figmentofmyimagination, no because whether it was the best case scenario or worst it would be fantasy, there is no way to know the impact of a Brexit deal that we haven't even started negotiated.

Whats democratic about making things up?

• started to negotiate.

possibly (probably) fake news but being reported that israel has nominated trump for nobel peace prize"
Israeli Defence Force gift bored
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4182672/Anti-Semitic-attacks-record-high.html

woman Apparently he has been nominated (for plans to move embassy to jerusalem) but not tipped to win.

In other news:

Economic benefits and costs are irrelevant

Just as irrelevant as they were under Blair then!

bored thats absurd re Mulloch why on earth would they do that! I assume its nonsense, or are they that scared of one man.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/european-union-trump-ambassador-ted-malloch-parliament

This is democracy in action
The European parliament’s main political parties are making an unprecedented attempt to block Donald Trump’s likely choice as ambassador to the European Union from EU buildings, describing him as hostile and malevolent.

^^ He doesnt like us so lets oppose him!!

Its just virtue signalling. If it was genuine then what not ban the Chinese, Russian and a dozen other ambassadors.

“We firmly believe that ignoring this unacceptable stance would undermine our future relationship with the US administration and could potentially contribute to the spread of populism and Euroscepticism across Europe"

Yes!
Down with this sort of thing!

We, the EU, don't agree with:

populism (support for the concerns of ordinary people)

Or

Euroscepticism (criticism of the EU)

.....but they're apparently benevolent, kindly liberals......

How to annoy the EU & the europhiles:

Think for yourself.

I have to admit Mulloch has not shown much diplomacy he has been very forthright, in his views......however surely the EU is bigger than one man, are they so scared of one man - is this the biggest signal yet just how weak and frail the EU is?