Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

So that's Mexico, Iran and China Trump has threatened to start a war with in 2 weeks of being POTUS

I think the likelihood of any of us surviving beyond 2017 is slim tbh
So I'm trying to be a bit more zen about this shit show

Love Paul Nuttalls in door camping.

Manon Not to mention how is May's plan to take to the tea clippers and trade with the rest of the world going to work out after the world's No 1 economy is at war with No 2.....

Sorry that should be take to the tea clippers, slave ships and gunboats

Well apparently it's all going to be sunlit uplands from here on in according to Brexiteers. Maybe what they meant was we're all going to be dead and in paradise.

Hoping for the best! grumpypuss
And unable to predict now. Guessing that if it follows that pattern of previous tory administrations she will be felled by a Brutus. She'll have a brexit honeymoon and then stuff will start to happen, the tories are brutal/efficient in getting rid. And the Mark Anthony who follows will have his own special website to compete with Breitbart.

Labour are finished. SNP sidelined. Sinn Fein in a position to unite Ireland without any of the previous requirements. Lib Dems, even if they get back to the giddy heights of Paddy Pantsdown, they can't get enough MPs.
So a strong, new nationalist leader and a slimmed down nation to go with it.

Boundary changes and state of labour collapse would suggest at least a few more conservative governments, but they won't be conservative because the successful funder of UKIP wants rid of them.

But the more important feature is how this plays out internationally.
If fascist governments are in place in France, US and Germany, our domestic problems, will be small fry. In fact they always were, but we'll see.

Hoping for the best.

This isn't Trump thread, I know, but his polling isn't great. He should be getting the sort of great polls, May and Tories are now, and he's on 48% for his racist Moslem ban. Already his plan to sell of US national parks has failed. After protests.

Agree with ron on Chinese. Don't underestimate the wisdom of a culture which is thousands of years older than ours. US is a teenager compared to them. Britain is the daft old aunt.( I am one too)

Not to mention how is May's plan to take to the tea clippers and trade with the rest of the world going to work out after the world's No 1 economy is at war with No 2.....

Confucius say teehee.

She's going to make a right twit of herself.

Im a leaver and I would bet on an early Tory win, May leading, then 4/5 years later Modern Labour in under Starmer for a long long time with Corbyn/Abbott/ Lammy etc all gone.

Many - optimistically, imo - seem to assume that May & the Tories would be hammered if they use Brexit to slash the nhs, public services, employment rights etc

However, under FTP, the Tories can stay in power indefinitely if they manage to get 36% of the vote in GEs.
Especially with the new seat boundaries in 2018
All they have to do is make sure that the people who pay for Brexit are not their supporters.
So, they'll protect pensioners and higher rate taxpayers, keep up house prices, talk up the Red, White & Blue Brexit.

Labour are expected to crash at the next GE, unless Corbyn is pushed falls under a bus beforehand.

Before the following GE, there may not be time for him to be convinced to quit after a heavy defeat, to elect a new leader AND to re-establish Labour as a credible alternative government.

In the past, when Labour & Tory had v unpopular leaders, it took hard work by the 2-3 sensible leaders following to bring them out of the wilderness.

So, the Tories look set to enjoy a long period in power, to remake the country to their wishes
They could possibly rule until even 2030.
Won't Lexiters be proud.
Let's keep reminding them, while the Tories tardis takes us back, back in time ....

Thank you woman. I agree with "Hoping for the best."

I have read that Putin's helpers are actively targeting the German election campaign with the aim to undermine Merkel. Not just cyber attacks but influencing German media, which is usually more balanced and much less inflammatory than the British media. The next few months will be interesting nerve wrecking.

No country or government is perfect (stating the obvious) but the way British politicians are behaving at this moment and since the referendum is despicable. Little moral fibre and no backbone. What Diane Abott did yesterday symbolises this lack of strength of character perfectly.

I agree with Boredofbrexit - that's what I think will happen.
I've been saying for ages that the 2015 GE had many similarities with 1992...but no one seems to agree with me! 😊
Tories will win next GE
Labour #2 will win the one after that - kier starmer is a good bet

Totally agree BigChoc. I like Starmer. I do have hopes that he's a grown-up who probably has an intelligent plan. But where are Labour going to get their voters from? The only way they can win 2525 (no chance before then) is if mass unemployment/civil unrest/catastrophic foreign policy (war). Basically, we need a re-run of the 80s. That's a lot of pain for a lot of people.

Yes!!!
Was saying just this to ds1 the other day
I see the issues and problems if the 80s coming back
I lived through it the first time and it wasn't much fun.....

And the Tories know that so will destroy as much state as they can while they can. Make it totally uneconomic to rebuild.

No wonder they published it after the vote.

Appallingly cynical Kaija! No doubt you are 100% correct.

My boss thinks I am a dreadful old cynic but as I frequently remark to him, after 25 years in the job, on the occasions that I am badly wrong it is usually because I am not cynical enough.

grumpypuss interestingly, the centre left in Germany is having something of a resurgence. It's reminiscent of mid 1990s Labour. Schultz now more popular than Merkel (and despite what our monolingual, DM reading colleagues on the other thread believe, Merkel is quite popular).

BigChoc I think you're underestmating the devastating economic impact of hard Brexit. All the more so if we crash out with chaotic Brexit.

May won't last more than 2 years whatever. The Tories will get in 2020 but already the economic downturn, inflation, job losses, fall in living stands, will be having an impact.

Even if Corbyn isn't gone by 2020, which I think unlikely given the current state of play, Labour won't have recovered enough to fare well.

But by 2025 we may see a new centrist party emerge from the ashes of Labour + LibDem + proEU Tories. (And if there isn't I'm bloody going to start one).

I have a feeling that the Brexit effect is actually going to be worse than doom & gloomism currently fears.

I see pain, shame & humiliation on the horizon for the country in general, but the Tories in particular. I'm not sure the Tories will survive long term 15-20 years.

Sorry to disrupt thread but below are links to help NI women and US women access contraception. It's getting a bit difficult in that area of healthcare under present yahoo administration in US and terminations are illegal in NI wtf. ( a coil can cost up to $1000 to have fitted) . It's possible to donate.

www.asn.org.uk
www.plannedparenthood.org

woman Don't underestimate the wisdom of a culture which is thousands of years older than ours. Pretty sure that Trump and Father Jack will have read the "Dummy's guide to Sun Tsu's Art of War". It is the thing amongst old corpulant American businessmen of a certain generation. www.forbes.com/sites/ericjackson/2014/05/23/sun-tzus-33-best-pieces-of-leadership-advice/#5afaf9913496

Whether they noticed that Sun Tsu was Chinese and having written it in the 5th century BC that the Chinese have had two thousands years plus extra in which to practise it is another matter.....

Perhaps it will take longer than that & I'm being impatient, but I don't think the Tories will surive this.

I'm worried that the tories won't win next 3 elections, because they won't exist. Banks has promised to destroy them and he did pretty well with Brexit. UKIP have conducted a very successful campaign.
A new even more right wing party is on the cards, google Arron Banks and you'll find more. He will be running the show. Our very own little Bannon.

Labour are finished, for the moment.

Labour if they modernise and by that I mean shake off the Blair association will get back their original voters who went to UKIP, tories and to an extent lib dems AND they will pick up a lot of the scottish vote. They have everything to play for if the position themselves as repairers of the social fabric.

Labour have been destroyed by lies about 'Bliar' from tory press and infiltration by Trots. Scots will never vote for English politicians again.

They are dead, deceased, not living, departed, not of this earth etc. (Parrot sketch stuff).