Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

[RedToothBrush]

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.

What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Valentine2 the Labour Party is a combination of clueless and duplicitous about the "access" to the single market issue. The few people in the shadow cabinet who actually understand the issues (Keir Starmer and maybe one or two others) have a vested interest in keeping voters in the dark, because otherwise they might have to explain why you can't have your cake and eat it.

Literally everyone (bar sanctioned nations) has access to the single market. Fill in a customs form, pay the tariff and obey the regulations - and you can have access. The question is on what terms. You can't trade as if you are in the single market without being in the single market, although remaining inside the EU customs union would keep some of the advantages notably avoiding a hard customs border at UK ports and airports and at the N Ireland/ ROI border. Labour is clear that it wants out of the SM, not so clear about the customs Union. Being inside the CU has a number of other implications, including making Liam Fox redundant and tabloid papers furious - so Labour won't support this even though it makes sense.

"Donald Trump reportedly planning executive order declaring pre-marital sex, same-sex marriage and abortion to be wrong"

Well looks like I wont be able to emigrate to the US anytime soon

Informal, I would dispute that graph, I had much better paid and much longer mat leave in an EU country than any of my peers in the UK at the time. Also I have the same 5wks holiday per year and not 4 weeks. So essentially unless that's a median across the whole of the EU (and if so, why compare to a single country), it's total bollocks.

Or was it meant to be satirical and I've fallen for it?

Isn't the reality though that the NHS is already largely privatised - except the key commitment to services free at the point of delivery?

The EU was responsible for the worst legal ruling to promote the cause of NHS privatisation - in 2013 in a case known as Alemo Herron.

The ECJ ruled that date taking on NHS services, private sector service providers no longer have to honour pay and other terms and conditions negotiated by unions with NHS Employers.

The ECJ said it was contrary to the employer's 'freedom to conduct business' to bind him to the pay and other terms being negotiated under collective arrangements with the unions - even though all these workers had the contractual right to have their pay negotiated in this way.

More than anything else, this ruling gave the government a free pass to outsource NHS services, with incoming providers able to pay what they want, on whatever terms they want.

There's an important Smith Institute report from sept 2014 - 'Outsourcing the cuts' - that maps the effect of this ruling on pay, precarious hours, pensions etc.

Re: Bar chart. This has made me angry as it's both incompetent and a lie. The EU Parliament proposed extending maternity pay from 14 to 20 weeks minimum (each country can top that up as they decide) in 2010. Guess who blocked this? Yes, UK.

Plus, is the chart trying to show how a uniform mass of EU countries have a "worse" policy than UK? Each country has to respect the minimum number of weeks paid maternity leave decided by the EU parliament, and can offer as many as they want on top. Denmark offers up to 52 weeks to share with the father, Spain offers 16. They are all different.

Exactly my point Jaws

How insulting to the intelligence of "the people"!

I had 20 weeks on full pay 12 years ago. In the same period my uk peers got 6 weeks on salary then SMP of around £150 pw thereafter

The graph isn't comparing to the EU average or to a particular country though - it's to demonstrate that the UK's laws on workers' rights in those areas give more time off than the EU laws on their own would.

I had 11 months in total, the 20 weeks was the obligatory mat leave, the remainder could be shared with the father on 30% pay

So are they incompetent or blatantly lying? as they've ascertained that many people are quite thick already

But they don't Tucker, unless it has suddenly improved.

They're trying to counter the argument that worker's rights will be worse after Brexit, because they are already better than is required by the EU.

The graph isn't comparing to the EU average or to a particular country though??? So they've made it up...

Well these are the 'EU minimum', so they are not intended as recommendations, they mean the EU won't allow a country to offer less to workers. I'm guessing that many countries in the world don't have such a minimum guaranteed, and that most EU countries offer more.

Melassa

The EU minimum paid maternity leave is 14 weeks:

www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/eu-laws-maternity-rights-and-parental-leave

You need to take a look at the references for the graph:

29: Individual Member States in the EU may exceed the EU minimum.

And then have a look at the OECD tables for paid maternity leave:

www.oecd.org/els/soc/PF2_1_Parental_leave_systems.pdf

The graph in the white paper is disingenuous, as when you compare the paid maternity leave as full-rate equivalent to mothers in the UK to other EU countries:

UK = 12.2 weeks
Austria = 16 weeks
France = 15 weeks
Germany = 14 weeks
Czech Republic = 19.6 weeks
Estonia = 20 weeks
Hungary = 16.8 weeks
Poland = 26 weeks

It's even more marked when total paid leave available to mothers is compared.

So not only is the graph wrongly labelled, it's actually misleading.

Plus they are that good now, as they're forced to provide those rights under EU legislation they've signed to. As I said UK blocked the proposal to extend maternity pay in 2010. But once the repeal Bill starts they could do away with all in the name of flexibility...

Melassa, I don't doubt that other countries also exceed the EU minimum, the point they're making is that the minimum under UK law is more than the minimum under EU law.

Having said that, I can't say that I've checked what the EU rules actually are.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-richard-spencer-holocuast-memorial-day-terrifying-a7559351.html

Steve Peers ‏*@StevePeers*
1 As expected, the Brexit white paper is basically content free. It's May's speech with a few stats and graphs. But here's a few points.
2 There will be a White Paper on the Great Repeal bill. It will keep EU Regulations in UK law, not just directives....
3 But note the ex-EU law must be interpreted the 'same way'. This logically refers to the case law of...the evil ECJ .
4 Commitment to acts of Parliament on immigration and customs. But "programme of secondary legislation" Henry VIII burps
5 Henry feasting on EU environmental law there. Parliamentary "oversight" means a single vote on a Statutory Instrument...
6 ...on a wet Wednesday afternoon. Unspecified "deficiencies" will be removed. Lobbyists look up from trough
7 There's a section on Northern Ireland. Summary: the Brexit Leprechaun will sort out the borders issues.
8 There's a broader section on devolution generally.
Summary: "Walkies!"
9 The "phased implementation" of new rules on immigration of EU citizens is likely to be a key bargaining point.
10 Speaking of bargaining chips...blather on existing UK/EU migrants but no specifics on what "securing status" means.
11 The banality of political waffle couldn't be waived to suggest anything concrete for millions worried about their future.
12 White Paper accepts that EU migrants help economy. But also says they trash public services and push down wages. Hmmm
13 No stats to support the public services/wages claims. But who needs them when we can just poke a finger down Farage's throat?
14 Promise to retain EU employment protection. But no mention of safeguarding by means of needing Act of Parliament to amend it.
15 the usual gumpf there about UK employment law being better than the EU version. Yes in some ways but ECJ case law extended...
16...holiday pay to UK workers with fixed term contracts or who were on commission or had extra allowances. Just one example.
17 They want "civil judicial cooperation" to continue with EU. But what? Brussels Reg? Insolvency Reg? Maintenance Reg?

"possibly (probably) fake news but being reported that israel has nominated trump for nobel peace prize"
IDF gift bored
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4182672/Anti-Semitic-attacks-record-high.html

"Kaija, the crazed evangelical right don't really believe that Trump is fully responsible for his sins of fornification. That responsibility lies with the wicked females, obviously."

Do we have witch hunting and burning to look forward to?

So we will STILL be subject to the ECJ, except we won't. The Henry the VIII clauses are arse. Devolution is ignored. Again. And EU citizens are our top bargaining chip and are also the most likely subject of a HoC / HoL rebellion there is.

Good stuff. Shall we carry on.

Steve Peers ‏*@StevePeers*

18 Do we want a competition law deal? Keep using EU trademark? Unitary patent? EU data protection law? God knows
19 Surely the govt wants a cooperation treaty with Euratom. (See my recent blog post) But if it told us it would have to kill us
20 Guys, EVEN HOMER SIMPSON HAS WORKED OUT YOUR NEGOTIATION STRATEGY ON THIS ONE
21 Look at these internal security stats! Which of these things do we want to negotiate to continue to apply? Wiffle Wiffle
22 We did this great stuff, and we will still "add value" to EU foreign policy. How? Don't ask, don't tell!
23 Spoiler: treaties aren't negotiated with actual playing cards. The UK will table draft texts...and the EU will SEE THEM [Shock]
24 Will everyone who sees them keep a monastic vow of silence? Is Richard Spencer a Nazi?
25 So basically the White Paper repeats what we've heard every day for months. Why not end on a joke. A Groundhog Day joke!
26 (See what I did there )
27 The Bill Murray movie plot has been copied: in that Tom Cruise soldier movie, & in that overrated Doctor Who episode hides
28 Why are these stories always about men? runs away from Doctor Who gender change issue
29 So here's my idea for a feminist version of Groundhog Day
A woman is forced to repeat the same day over and over...
30 ...until she finds another woman to talk to, about something other than a man.
31 That's all! But if you would like me to slave over a blog version of this thread , hit the Like button...

So erm, yeah. Everyone's summary seems to be about as good as we all thought it would be. They were still writing this shit at 4.17am this morning. Like a student desperately trying to get their A Level course work all done on the last night before its due. Except, I used to write better crap than that when I did that. I give it an D- for A Level. Trouble this is Expert Above Graduate Level Type Stuff Cos Its Like Real Life and Affects Millions of People.

But Yeah. I'm impressed with the plan. I see no problems.

As with most pro leave propaganda, superficial and misleading, which did make me wonder if it was supposed to be satirical.

Didn't Leadsom want to do away with maternity leave seeing as she's had her children so it won't affect her? Not to mention JRM, who would have woman birthing in fields then carrying on working.