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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2017 13:49

Well its finally here. The day America changes forever. Good luck planet earth.

Our day of reckoning is beckoning too.

Tuesday is Supreme Court Judgement Day.

At 9.30 Lord Nueberger and the other ten justices will convene and he will read out their judgement.

Contrary to some suggestions this does not mean the decision is necessarily unanimous. It is normal for the Supreme Court to do this.

Nueberger will read any disagreements out as part of the judgment.
Their ruling will be far reaching in its importance however it goes.

A victory for the government will mean a50 can be triggered as and when Theresa May likes. That could be Tuesday afternoon in theory.

If it’s a victory for the claimants then things get much more complicated. It depends on how far the justices go.

It could rule that parliament need to vote on a50.

It could rule that the Great Repeal Act must be passed before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that the Scottish and NI Assemblies must agree to a50 being invoked.

It could rule that the Good Friday Agreement must be resolved before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that issues over acquired rights must be resolved before invoking a50.

It could draw other conclusions that we have not thought of.

A strong victory for the claimants could seriously hamper May’s plans for Brexit. Which is exactly why she has laid out her vision and has prepared the battle lines ready for her next round of blame laying.

None of this will be because the government has been short sighted.

If there is a strong victory, remember that May could have avoided the situation by accepting the High Court’s ruling in December that she needed Parliament’s consent to trigger a50. Anything more that makes triggering a50 more difficult is her sole responsibility and she had the power to avoid. Much of the right wing press will tell you differently.

We've heard so much about Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit. We should also talk of Democratic and Undemocratic Brexit. How Brexit is managed and how we conduct ourselves is arguably as important to the future as economics. It is right to oppose Undemocratic Brexit. It is important to make that distinction and all the principles that fall under that concept. What opposition there is need to get their shit together on this principle. Using patriotism to stifle this wholly wrong and unhealthy. Saying Brexit must happen no matter what, regardless of how bad it is and regardless of the cost is wrong.

Make the case for democracy. Keep talking about it. Talk about where it is failing and what we must do to strengthen it, not undermine it.

Here lies Labour's policy on Brexit. "We support Democratic Brexit which is the will of the people. This is how we define this. This is what is needed economic and socially." You can find the necessary slogans from this and start defining it outward from that. So far they have failed to capture this sentiment concisely into a soundbite that people can start to develop and push a left wing liberal agenda on their own terms from. Their PR is shocking and they are incoherent. May owned Corbyn at PMQ earlier this week on these grounds. This is not because they have been misrepresented by the press or been the victim of biased media. Its because they have been shit and have failed to set their own agenda and instead are dancing to everyone else's.

Here’s hoping that democracy will win through the challenges of the next few years. Democracy is about elections and referendums, but it is also so much more. It is about on going debate and the freedom of this debate, freedom of the press, a range of political parties and points of view, the independent judiciary, the right to oppose the state, freedom to exercise your legal rights, freedom of speech, an understanding of equality and an understanding and above all else - respect for of all of the above. It does not bode well that much of the right wing press and right wing politicians are telling us differently.

So much hope about our futures now rests with Angela Merkel one way or another.

Meanwhile Corbyn could face a major rebellion over a50 if he pursues a three line whip rather than a free vote. 60 - 80 Labour MPs are threatening not to tow the party line with shadow cabinet resignations potentially also on the cards.

Brace yourselves the roller coaster is just about to hit a one big drop.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:41

Unanimous that they do not have to consult devolved assemblies

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allyjay · 24/01/2017 09:42

Thank goodness!!

HashiAsLarry · 24/01/2017 09:43

Phew

SalemsCat · 24/01/2017 09:45

Government has lost article 50 challenge. I'm very pleased and relieved.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:46

Government lawyer saying the government subject to the rule of law. Stressing that court is not undermining the referendum.

How different from Dec...

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Cailleach1 · 24/01/2017 09:46

Interesting, a government party in which Scotland only has one single MP and Northern Ireland none at all (notwithstanding DUP support) will take them out of the EU against their wishes.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:46

Press Association ‏*@PA*

#Breaking Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would not "frustrate the process for invoking Article 50" but will seek to amend the Government's bill

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/01/2017 09:49

It won't change the outcome though, will it? Most Tories will vote in favour of invoking A50. I heard Ken Clark say on Today that he expected to be in a tiny minority of Tories voting against it. The SNP will vote against, but Corbyn appears to expect Labour to vote for. Unless there is a huge revolt, won't it go through anyway, just a bit later than May wants?

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:50

Rupert Myers ‏*@RupertMyers*

British judges have voted for modern democracy over ancient Royal power: this is a great day for the constitution. #SupremeCourt #Article50
8 to 3 verdict, Gina Miller wins. This isn't about stopping or slowing Brexit, it's about doing it properly & democratically.
Whether you're a Leaver or a Remainer, you should celebrate the Supreme Court giving power to parliament today.
You can safely ignore any howls of anger: this was the right decision on Article 50.
I cannot begin to imagine the hostility she has & will continue to receive, but Gina Miller is a hero.

GINA MILLER HERO OF THE PEOPLE.

Oh the irony.

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woman12345 · 24/01/2017 09:53

Interesting, a government party in which Scotland only has one single MP and Northern Ireland none at all (notwithstanding DUP support) will take them out of the EU against their wishes.
Absolutely disgusting ruling on NI and Scotland, Cailleach1
This aspect the decision will be regretted.
England really is a bitch.
Linton Kwesi Johnson - Inglan Is A Bitch - YouTube

PenguinRoar · 24/01/2017 09:54

This is absolutely right and proper. The referendum was a legal farce.
Even now, there is no clarity as to what people voted for, because the impact of leaving or remaining was never clearly laid out.

It was a base popularity contest and people's rights were never considered.

Hurrah for democracy.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:54

James Lee*@jamessflee*
Two of the dissentients in #Miller #Article50 case were identified by certain papers as having alleged "EURO LINKS"
@Telegraph @DailyMailUK
...which goes to show that perhaps papers were wrong to cast aspersions on the Justices' integrity
#Miller #Article50 #Brexit

Conor James McKinney ‏*@mckinneytweets*

The majority of 8: Lords Neuberger, Mance, Kerr, Clarke, Wilson, Sumption and Hodge, and Lady Hale. Lords Reed, Carnwath, Hughes dissented.

David Allen Green ‏*@Law*andpolicy

Am sure any Brexiteers disappointed by the defeat today will soon get over it and stop moaning.

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woman12345 · 24/01/2017 09:54

This aspect of the decision , that should read.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:56

www.gov.uk/government/news/lord-chancellor-response-to-supreme-court-judgment

Liz Truss does her job and stands up for the law.

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HalleLouja · 24/01/2017 09:58

The guy in my office who is very pro Brexit is not happy....

Anyway Farage wanted Parliamentary Sovereignty and he got it.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 09:59

One of those judges who said the gov could use RP has said that the idea that a50 can not be reversed is not definite.

Interesting.

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woman12345 · 24/01/2017 10:01

Hope Michelle O’Neill, NS and Merkel are on the phone to each other right now.

SalemsCat · 24/01/2017 10:03

Yes, this IS parliamentary sovereignty. This needs to be voted on.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 10:04

Fifty (!) amendments to a50 to be tabled by the SNP.

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woman12345 · 24/01/2017 10:05

a50 can not be reversed is not definite Which EU country would want to come within a million miles of this one now?
England is the laughing stock of the world. Or a horror show, take your pick.

woman12345 · 24/01/2017 10:06

And no Sinn Fein representation in HOC.

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 10:06

David Davies statement due in Commons at 11.30

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drinkswineoutofamug · 24/01/2017 10:12

I've not read all the posts , I see that the government lost. They have to vote. So what happens if the government vote not to trigger article 50? 52%(?) of the nation voted to leave the eu. Will these people have their votes denied? Sorry I'm not 100% politically minded.

woman12345 · 24/01/2017 10:12

Fascism 2017, started here folks: Britain or rather England's brightest and best:

UKIP already threatening reprisals
Nigel Farage ‏*@Nigel*_Farage 37m37 minutes ago
More
The establishment are trying to delay the Brexit process. People are getting angry about it.

l

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2017 10:14

Parliament has eight weeks to get a50 through. However there is a week where there is EU business so key ministers not available. There is also a week where parliament is in recess. That gives May 6 weeks to get a50 through the HoC and HoL.

All other business in parliament is likely to get cleared to make way for it.

Downing street still confident to get through by end of March.

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