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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris, May and Judgement Day

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 20/01/2017 13:49

Well its finally here. The day America changes forever. Good luck planet earth.

Our day of reckoning is beckoning too.

Tuesday is Supreme Court Judgement Day.

At 9.30 Lord Nueberger and the other ten justices will convene and he will read out their judgement.

Contrary to some suggestions this does not mean the decision is necessarily unanimous. It is normal for the Supreme Court to do this.

Nueberger will read any disagreements out as part of the judgment.
Their ruling will be far reaching in its importance however it goes.

A victory for the government will mean a50 can be triggered as and when Theresa May likes. That could be Tuesday afternoon in theory.

If it’s a victory for the claimants then things get much more complicated. It depends on how far the justices go.

It could rule that parliament need to vote on a50.

It could rule that the Great Repeal Act must be passed before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that the Scottish and NI Assemblies must agree to a50 being invoked.

It could rule that the Good Friday Agreement must be resolved before a50 can be invoked.

It could rule that issues over acquired rights must be resolved before invoking a50.

It could draw other conclusions that we have not thought of.

A strong victory for the claimants could seriously hamper May’s plans for Brexit. Which is exactly why she has laid out her vision and has prepared the battle lines ready for her next round of blame laying.

None of this will be because the government has been short sighted.

If there is a strong victory, remember that May could have avoided the situation by accepting the High Court’s ruling in December that she needed Parliament’s consent to trigger a50. Anything more that makes triggering a50 more difficult is her sole responsibility and she had the power to avoid. Much of the right wing press will tell you differently.

We've heard so much about Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit. We should also talk of Democratic and Undemocratic Brexit. How Brexit is managed and how we conduct ourselves is arguably as important to the future as economics. It is right to oppose Undemocratic Brexit. It is important to make that distinction and all the principles that fall under that concept. What opposition there is need to get their shit together on this principle. Using patriotism to stifle this wholly wrong and unhealthy. Saying Brexit must happen no matter what, regardless of how bad it is and regardless of the cost is wrong.

Make the case for democracy. Keep talking about it. Talk about where it is failing and what we must do to strengthen it, not undermine it.

Here lies Labour's policy on Brexit. "We support Democratic Brexit which is the will of the people. This is how we define this. This is what is needed economic and socially." You can find the necessary slogans from this and start defining it outward from that. So far they have failed to capture this sentiment concisely into a soundbite that people can start to develop and push a left wing liberal agenda on their own terms from. Their PR is shocking and they are incoherent. May owned Corbyn at PMQ earlier this week on these grounds. This is not because they have been misrepresented by the press or been the victim of biased media. Its because they have been shit and have failed to set their own agenda and instead are dancing to everyone else's.

Here’s hoping that democracy will win through the challenges of the next few years. Democracy is about elections and referendums, but it is also so much more. It is about on going debate and the freedom of this debate, freedom of the press, a range of political parties and points of view, the independent judiciary, the right to oppose the state, freedom to exercise your legal rights, freedom of speech, an understanding of equality and an understanding and above all else - respect for of all of the above. It does not bode well that much of the right wing press and right wing politicians are telling us differently.

So much hope about our futures now rests with Angela Merkel one way or another.

Meanwhile Corbyn could face a major rebellion over a50 if he pursues a three line whip rather than a free vote. 60 - 80 Labour MPs are threatening not to tow the party line with shadow cabinet resignations potentially also on the cards.

Brace yourselves the roller coaster is just about to hit a one big drop.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
whatwouldrondo · 21/01/2017 19:59

User Agreed. It was reassuring that under sunny skies there were so many that felt the same

Peregrina · 21/01/2017 20:11

"Even scousers think you are too orange Donald"
Love it. Also love the way the Scousers boycott the Sun.

woman12345 · 21/01/2017 20:17

So many people there at the start ron and almost no police (apparently), I know we are mums and teenage girls, but they hadn't expected so many. Even all the kids seemed happy! I think seeing your mum standing up for all things fair, is a bit of an eye opener for them! Agree it was a bit of nourishment desperately needed user. I need to be reminded that most people are good! At least it's been in some of the news. I've been on some that got no reporting.
673 sister marches round the world and 2,500,000 participants !
Even if that's half true, I've never known that to happen before.

Suggests it's time for a peaceful women's march again for remain. Making it women predominantly saves all that time, hassle, violence and policing. In honour of what we've lost. You could tell the dynamic was so different to ones with the usual customers on marches. The police attitude was so relaxed.

Meanwhile the unspeakable has done the obvious to Canadian women trying to get to one of the American
ones.www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/20/womens-march-canada-protesters-denied-entry-us

HashiAsLarry · 21/01/2017 20:22

Glad to see some of you turned out to the march. I wasn't able to sadly, so thanks from me Flowers

BestIsWest · 21/01/2017 20:31

Just marking place. Three generations of our family at the Washington march today and DD was going to the Cardiff march. Unfortunately I couldn't make it which I very much regret.

whatwouldrondo · 21/01/2017 20:44

Another good one "Supercallousfragileracistextrabraggadocious" Grin

lalalonglegs · 21/01/2017 20:47

All those that couldn't come today but fancy a protest in the future, get thinking of some placard slogans and come to the Unite for Europe march on 25/3 to show support for Remain (the date is the 60th anniversary of the signing of the Treaty of Rome).

Peregrina · 21/01/2017 21:00

Wow, just looking at all the pictures of world wide protests. Has there ever been anything quite like that?

There were huge anti-Cruise demos in the 80s, but they weren't worldwide.

woman12345 · 21/01/2017 21:05

thanks lala , seems a long way off, we need it now.
And there's this:
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/mass-lobby-to-guarantee-the-rights-of-residence-of-eu-citizens-tickets-31121353807
and anti racist march:
www.standuptoracism.org.uk

user1484653592 · 21/01/2017 21:06

I like to think these marches sent a strong message to French Le Pen, German ADF leader Frauke Petry and other misguided and bigoted wannabe revolutionaries around the world.

woman12345 · 21/01/2017 21:09

Never. Peregrina Upside to t'internet.

user1484653592 · 21/01/2017 21:21

I wonder how seeing 100K women and men marching in London against sexism, racism, and against a 'sepcial' relationship with Trump made our prime minister feel?

Bobochic · 21/01/2017 21:31

Theresa May is in an impossible position. The contradictions of her role are untenable. She will fall.

lurkinghusband · 21/01/2017 21:38

Why am I reminded of the peace marches in 1970s Belfast ... where women marched ?

To my shame I forget the names of the two amazing ladies who fronted them (I remember a profile in the Readers Digest Grin).

lurkinghusband · 21/01/2017 21:41

I wonder how seeing 100K women and men marching in London against sexism, racism, and against a 'sepcial' relationship with Trump made our prime minister feel?

That unemployment, maternity and disability benefits are too high, and employers not strict enough on their staff ?

Or is there anyone more cynical ?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2017 21:49

Scathing opinion on May's speech from NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/opinion/theresa-mays-global-britain-is-baloney.html?action=click&contentCollection=world&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=newsevent&rref=collection%2Fnews-event%2Fbritain-brexit-european-union

"I know this is a political moment when black equals white, no means yes, two plus two equals five, and post-truth is the phrase du jour.
Still, this was a Trump-size whopper from May.
She had obviously been steeped in Orwell before her oration."

"The vote for Brexit was in fact the moment Britain turned its backk_ on the world, succumbing to pettiness, anti-immigrant bigotry, lying politicians, self-delusion and vapid promises of restored glory."

“Global Britain is a specious branding effort designed to mask an expensive mistake, opposed by 48 percent of voters."

Peregrina · 21/01/2017 21:51

Mairéad Corrigan and Betty Williams. They also won the Nobel Prize for Peace.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2017 21:53

Sobering assessment - Krugmann on Trump:

"It was obvious to anyone paying attention that the incoming administration would be blatantly corrupt.
But would it at least be efficient in its corruption?"

"Mr. Trump hasn’t pivoted, matured, whatever term you prefer.
He’s still the insecure, short-attention-span egomaniac he always was.
Worse, he is surrounding himself with people who share many of his flaws — perhaps because they’re the sort of people with whom he is comfortable."

"an administration unprecedented in its corruption, but also completely unprepared to govern"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/opinion/donald-the-unready.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpaul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection

woman12345 · 21/01/2017 21:54

And in 2003 Women of Liberia Mass Action for Peace is a peace movement started by women in Liberia, Africa, that worked to end the Second Liberian Civil War. Organized by Crystal Roh Gawding and social workers Leymah Gbowee and Comfort Freeman, the movement began despite Liberia having extremely limited civil rights. It started with thousands of local women praying and singing in a fish market daily for months. Thousands of Muslim and Christian women from various classes mobilized their efforts, staged silent nonviolence protests that included a sex strike and the threat of a curse.

How about a pornography black out and no more towels picked up for them here till they learn how to behave? Grin

PattyPenguin · 21/01/2017 21:57

The "German businesses need the UK" and "German businesses will pressure Merkel into a good deal for the UK" thing... Not looking too clever.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38707997
Brexit: Berlin business leaders unimpressed with UK's message

Peregrina · 21/01/2017 22:07

Wouldn't 'efficient corruption' be siphoning off as much of the nation's assets as you could get away with, in as short a time as possible? Oh, and not getting caught.

lalalonglegs · 21/01/2017 22:14

The rebellion has started (we hope). Cross party MPs plot to stop extreme brexit.

The Labour, Lib Dem, Green and some pro-EU Tory MPs say May has no mandate for the “extreme Brexit” options speech she made last Tuesday – including the adoption of World Trade Organisation (WTO) tariffs if the UK cannot strike a free-trade deal with the EU within two years. They are now co-operating to try to prevent this.

About bloody time.

Lico · 21/01/2017 22:15

Yes, we caught the end of the march in Trafalguar Square. Was very surprised at the number of people still there. Shame we missed the beginning of it; daughter had not done any of her homework as previously told ....looked a great day though.

HesterThrale · 21/01/2017 22:26

I went on the London March with friends and daughters; it was refreshing and galvanising after a depressing few months. So packed it took over 2 hours to get out of Grosvenor Sq. They said 100,000 on ITV news. Such a relaxed and friendly atmosphere. Lots of witty placards - many Nasty Women and cat-based (pussy) references. It felt like the successful launch of a battle. There are obviously a lot of angry people who are not going to just roll over. We need to capitalise on this groundswell of discontent with our political leaders.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2017 22:28

Yes, German business including auto manufacturers are very supportive of Merkel's stance and of the EU.
They think longterm, not short term profits - the UK govt may not be used to this.
The overwhelming majority of the public also don't want the UK to have yet more special concessions.

The German Motoring Organisation said in November:

"We are not so much worried about how many cars they buy from us (as we can easily recompense with Far East markets),
we are more worried the UK will so much poorer they won't be able to afford our cars"