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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

OP posts:
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SwedishEdith · 19/01/2017 20:45

"What could we value instead that is more important and how do we instil those new values? "

Kindness. Not much profit in kindness, unfortunately.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 20:48

Noticeable lack of leavers on the NI thread I see.

I noticed that too, because it's a place where some really serious issues need to be resolved, so the usual "suck it up", and "I can't be bothered to explain because Remoaners get at me", won't cut it. Not that there aren't lighter moments, with a discussion of Taytos and butter smuggling.

ManonLescaut · 19/01/2017 20:48

but it will be interesting to see whether it is better than worse for us than TTIP

How can it possibly be better? Trump's opposition to TTIP is on record. He thinks it will hurt US workers and undercut US companies. He will either scrap it or more likely renegotiate the whole thing on his terms.

StripeyMonkey1 · 19/01/2017 20:53

Kindness, yes. I agree we do not value that nearly enough, and it will only become more important given our ageing population (which will one day include us!).

I think we need something worth fighting for too. Something we can all aspire to in terms of social contribution. Not everyone has the patience to be a teacher or a carer and that's fine. Building and making things has an immense value for everyone. Construction and manufacturing are so tangible. We need more of this too.

StripeyMonkey1 · 19/01/2017 21:02

Woman12345 Yes, high opposition numbers against Brexit and I can't see that changing anytime soon. This is an interesting article on the strong views on both sides from the Independent.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-latest-news-half-uk-voters-electorate-disgust-other-side-opposite-eu-european-union-lse-study-a7535566.html

woman12345 · 19/01/2017 21:03

What else could we call success
Yanis Varoufakis wrote a great essay which I can't find, but his point was that the new world order reduced people to consumers or debtors and there was no other valued characteristic to a human.

If you look at the mind set of slavery, when slaves had to save up to buy their freedom, I have always thought that the student loans were insidious beyond belief, because that is what schools are being forced to persuade students to do. There is every indication that loans which were on 'reasonable' terms will now be sold on to banks imposing much less leniency.

Humans need so little, to live well. But it is such a jump of mindset from your personhood's value being the cost of your handbag. I think even an authority in Glasgow is experimenting with the 'universal wage' idea. Few jobs are really doing anything useful. Work is now used for social control, really, most could be automated. Many jobs seem to be a cycle of remedial action for human made problems, service work for usually men who are too entitled to do the job themselves or production of inane artefacts which are in a landfill a couple of years later. Stuff could easily be made to last, just doesn't suit 'the man's desire for profit.

I wonder if alternative communities like Machynlleth will be allowed in the 51st state. DT is getting rid of the priceless American national parks.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2017 21:17

For those who were asking...

Leave Wishlist: Attracting business to come / stay in the UK

May's race to the bottom to attract business & their highflyers = lower tax for them.
= a transfer of the tax burden from corporations and those on high salaries to those on median & lower incomes.
and / or drastic cuts in the welfare budget, nhs, care services etc
Increased privatisation = selling the UK family silver

Plus freeing business from regulations
We saw in 2008 how well that went and the JAMs haven't caught up since

Making the precariat even more precarious

The Open Europe (pro-Brexit) thinktank have a hit list of workers' rights to repeal, including:

. Working time rules (£4 billion a year )
. Agency worker regulations (£500 million) - giving them equal pay & hols, furiously resisted by uk gov
. Parental & maternity leave regulations ( £60 million)
. Harassment regs flowing from EU law (£180 million)
. Various health & safety regs (e.g. asbestos regulations £23 million)

A similar Brexit group, Economists for Britain, also identified removing gender equality and working time as "benefits" to business.

Leaver Priti Patel MP (then employment secretary) boasted to the rightwing Institute of Directors about the "bonfire of workers' rights" she wants after Brexit.

Leaver Moggy MP:
“We could say, if it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here. There’s nothing to stop that.

StripeyMonkey1 · 19/01/2017 21:21

Humans need so little, to live well

When I feel a little depressed about the likely impact of Brexit on my children, I think this. Money is nice (I like my warm house in January!) but not the only factor to live a good life.

I'd like something better for society too. The sense of growing and achieving as a country would be nice. We need a purpose. What could that be? It need not be purely economic. Maybe something environmental in the widest sense could do it? I'm thinking beautiful parks, impressive buildings, world class renewable energy, organic food, great quality of life... Or maybe something else, completely different?

The problem with a lot of things we could and maybe should aim for (e.g. robotics, genetic engineering, virtual reality/implants) is that they require such a high level of expertise and will necessarily be exclusive of most of the population. If we choose to excel at any or all of these we need to couple this with a real passion and value for 'personal' and 'life quality' jobs, such as personal training for fitness, design and art in public and private spaces, and possibly even an enhanced public sector caring, training and teaching role (instead of a basic income?).

Not the best ideas I'm sure, but we need something.

StripeyMonkey1 · 19/01/2017 21:33

Two things that frustrate me:

"I have nothing to lose" as a reason for voting. Yes, you have plenty to lose. The country might well not be able to afford such a comprehensive NHS forever (many countries can't). Do you not consider free health care as being "something to lose"?

Trade deals. Yes, we might get some. They are unlikely to be better than what we have at the moment, but it is likely that countries will want to trade with us. We then need to have goods and services to sell. What new goods and services will we have, or do people know they have already that they think will be so much easier to sell. I am yet to find one example of something someone will fine easier to sell internationally post-Brexit.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 21:35

We could say, if it’s good enough in India,

Good, let's see Moggy move to a shack with no running water, just a stagnant pond outside, and no toilet. I look forward to seeing him enjoy it.

woman12345 · 19/01/2017 21:40

Thanks for article StripeyMonkey . There's a lot of 'attachment' to the anger, if you know what I mean. I know I have it, but need to be strategic and not lose energy on the loss.

There are a lot, really a lot of very wise people in their twenties, who are thinking this stuff through, because they have had to. They're the real technology pioneers, and I think they have a much more nuanced approach to it than my generation. Inevitably, because they are getting so stitched up by education, jobs and housing stuff, many of them have a more radical and of course, international take on stuff.

Sad thing is so many of them were working so hard to save the poor souls stuck in Calais, with food convoys, and all sorts, many are as devastated by the cruelty of how those refugees have been treated as anything. I feel like I've betrayed that generation and I was delivering remain leaflets till 9 the night before the vote.

Melassa · 19/01/2017 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

woman12345 · 19/01/2017 22:02

BigChoc terrifying wish list. But the really creepy thing is there's already a serf and master work culture in UK, with zero hours etc and managers to command a team of right less workers. Equal pay is effectively non existent, with women workers' rights routinely flouted. The civil service is decimated, so the HSE has fewer resources. The 1992 Trade Union act should have been but was not repealed by Labour, and we are living in a brutal work culture as a result. ( causing much, I think, of the Brexit brutality)

So many 'ideas in the brave new world of Hammond et al are already happening here, all they have to do now is up the surveillance, hold mass deportations and detentions, invent new crimes, charge for schooling, end the NHS and their work is done!

mathanxiety · 19/01/2017 22:11

Stripey - wrt the 'showdown' - I suspect there are some for whom 'winning' means being finally able to indulge their own crapulence without regard for PC aversion to references to the war (a la Boris Johnson).

"I have nothing to lose" as a reason for voting.
As the song goes - 'Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose'..

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 22:14

I would be interested to hear SuperMummy's views on NI
I have family in N.I. so actually have stronger views on it than on the Brexit.

Everyone with a brain knows how gorgeous peace is. NI 55% remain
So you have no idea about N.I. then because there has never been peace. The violence has just evolved, its off the UKs headlines. Maybe the bombs have decreased (not stopped) but the violence, intimidation, sectarianism and murders have continued if not increased.

Next steps in NI will be a push for united Ireland, the brexiteers tea and jam tax haven is going to be pretty small
No it won't, not even on the radar. Southern Ireland does not want to take on the burden of N.I. its a poisoned chalice, financially, politically religiously and in term of security.

My views are that Brexit is of little concern in N.I. The republicans see the EU as a way to circumvent/bash the 'English' government' and the Unionists are only concerned with the Union and defeating the republicans. Both sides are very aware that its the English government that pays for N.I.

The current crisis has nothing what so ever to do with Brexit and is just a boiling over of tensions that have been simmering for the past decade. I dont even think most people on the mainland know that N.I. has a legally enforced coalition. The old terrorists who went into the peace process as a defacto pension agreement are reaching the end of their lives and the younger and still militant leaders are now taking up the mantle. Whatever the outcome of Brexit it will have no actual impact on N.I. other that to be used as an excuse to uncover what was always been there and would have happened anyway.

GloriaGaynor · 19/01/2017 22:16

Southern Ireland being Cork, Waterford and Kerry?

GloriaGaynor · 19/01/2017 22:18

My views are that Brexit is of little concern in N.I

Shock
prettybird · 19/01/2017 22:21

I do hope suppermummy continues to post. Her posts are very shall we say illuminating Wink

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 22:22

Question Time Tonight:
Chris Grayling (CON)
Emily Thornberry (LAB)
Alistair Carmichael (LD)
Piers Morgan (Professional Dick)
Lionel Shriver (Novelist)

From Peterborough

OP posts:
GloriaGaynor · 19/01/2017 22:24

They're certainly light relief.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 22:24

Yep, that is the stereotypical leaver's view of NI. Doesn't fit in with rainbows and unicorns therefore it doesn't exist.

Kaija · 19/01/2017 22:25

Piers Morgan (Professional Dick)

Grin

Should be on his business cards.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 22:28

Gloria Gaynor, yes I get the name, do others? Before I am shouted down I meant the average person in N.I. is more concerned about domestic issues, of course their will be very hardcore Brexiteers and Remoaners in the mix. I am off to watch QT.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 22:30

HashiAsLarry, no its not, people are more concerned about the sectarianism than they are about the EU. Guess you have never been bombed.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 22:33

supper well that's exceptionally ignorant on so many levels