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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 13:43

'Electorate' has only one meaning - the people entitled to vote at an election. If you use it incorrectly it has nothing to do with you being 'working class' and everything to do with you being thick.
Pardon me you lordship, but where I am from the electorate means those who are eligible to vote, entitlement is just your privilege showing. For example if you dont turn up at the polling station (or open your postal vote) you are not eligible to vote. Hence down at the Dog and Duck on the odd occasion when we use the word electorate we are referring to people who turn up at the polling station. So back to being a middle class pedant?

such a referendum which could bring about such changes should not have had to be approved by a certain threshold of the entire electorate
That wouldn't work, if you set a threshold of 60% to pass then neither side would have won, and we wouldn't have had a mandate to either leave or stay, so would have to vote again and again. A turnout threshold would have be workable but we had 72% turnout so easily passed any reasonable level.

They can't just roll over and allow us to leave their club on our own terms though, because it would encourage other members to want the same terms
I hear that said but doesn't that imply if countries were allowed to leave they would, and we have to punish those dare to leave, that sounds like a prison. Why do anyone want to be in a protectionist dictatorship like that, we should get out as soon as we can.

I am not a member of a gym, don't pay a subscription, not allowed access to their machines or classes. I don't have to follow their rules or dress code but last year I did sell a gym some exercise equipment. How the hell did I manage that with out being a member? Mind blown

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 13:44

"cheap EU labour - using people who have no concept of working rights in the first place,"

Most EU countries have tight and established working rights.
So funny how some people lap this 'British superiority' fairy tale up. People who probably have never studied or worked in any of the diverse EU countries. Such wilful ignorance..... I suppose it's always easy to believe in nationalistic fairy tales than challenging ones existing notions and broadening ones horizon.

Let's see how desperate things will turn out to be here in the UK in terms economic stability, schooling and healthcare, job stability, housing, workers rights. We might find that desperate Brits will apply for working visas en masse in France, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands. Maybe language courses and language technology will boom.

Bobochic · 19/01/2017 13:46

Not turning up at the polling station does not make you ineligible to vote. Not turning up at the polling station means you didn't bother to use your vote.

lurkinghusband · 19/01/2017 13:46

SuperMummy

Probably shouldn't go off topic but on human rights I would end a persons right to a family life, and I would reduce criminals human rights.

Why do you want to give up your right to a family life ? Are your in-laws that bad ?

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 13:52

No right to a family life?

You'd have no problem with the state removing your children to educate them in the way they think is correct then?

You'd have no problem with people being sterilised against their will for any number of reasons?

That's a bold statement.

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RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 13:56

You'd be comfortable for anyone on this threat to be deported as an EU national even if they are married to a British citizen and have kids here?

Nice.

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TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 13:56

Pardon me you lordship, but where I am from the electorate means those who are eligible to vote, entitlement is just your privilege showing. For example if you dont turn up at the polling station (or open your postal vote) you are not eligible to vote. Hence down at the Dog and Duck on the odd occasion when we use the word electorate we are referring to people who turn up at the polling station. So back to being a middle class pedant?

You really are a very odd, and very ignorant, person aren't you? 'Entitled to vote' is very normal English usage, it doesn't indicate that someone feels 'entitled' - in the way the word's used as an insult on MN threads.

What one earth makes you think I'm middle class though? You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder if you equate your profound ignorance with you being 'working class' and my average intelligence with me being 'middle class'.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 13:59

if you dont turn up at the polling station (or open your postal vote) you are not eligible to vote.
Pardon me, you are still eligible to vote, you have just chosen not to exercise the right. Non-eligibility is not being on the register. So when you have finished getting bladdered at the Dock and Duck at 9.50 pm you think "Sh*t, I haven't voted, must get down there quick". Alternatively you think "Is there a poll going on today? Oh well, I can't be arsed."

such a referendum which could bring about such changes should not have had to be approved by a certain threshold of the entire electorate
Far from 'not working' as you opine, countries which use Referenda as one of their normal democratic processes do put rules like that in place.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 14:00

You need to remember though that France is one of the founders and has always had a very strong eurohile position.
That is exactely the opposite to the uk who has joined the eu but has been against every single change in it that wasn't purely and simply about free trade.
You also need to remember that in France there hasn't been 40 or 50 years of anti European feeling. The eu being singled out as 'THE' reason that we can't do as we please in our country etc etc.
It's a completely different situation.

What I have heard french people saying is that they are still grumpy about the introduction of the Euro as they associate it with a massive price increase (whilst wages stayed the same). And whilst this is true, a reversal from the Euro to the franc would create a similar effect (probably even worse - can you imagine how hard it would be to get out of European AND the euro when just coming out of Europe proves to be a very hard thing to do???)

I really don't think this is an idea that has ever been Serioulsy considered.

Finally, in the (new) eu, eu citizens aren't seen as immigrants because they are apart of the same 'group'. Just like, they weren't here just 1 year ago.....

jaws5 · 19/01/2017 14:01

Amazed at what I am reading, but I suspect that supermummy would happily oppose the right to a family life if that ensured people like me (married to a Brit, dual nat. children) being "sent back", without for a millisecond considering the implications for herself as British superiority would ensure she'd never suffer. How ignorant and nasty.

jaws5 · 19/01/2017 14:03

...the rest of supermummy's points are just hilarious in their lack of basic understanding.

PattyPenguin · 19/01/2017 14:03

Indeed, 'entitled to' means you have a right to have or use something.

To find out what benefits they are entitled to, posters on Mumsnet are often referred to a very useful website called entitledto www.entitledto.co.uk/

If you put "entitled to vote" + gov.uk into Google , (to get just the council and government websites), you get 336,000 results.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 14:05

Why do you want to give up your right to a family life ? Are your in-laws that bad ?
Grin Grin. I find my MIL hard work but I manage to rub along with her, for the sake of family life.

lurkinghusband · 19/01/2017 14:09

I think actually, SuperMummy is way ahead of us when it comes to equality.

Whereas most people on this thread are only able to see the rest of the world as a complex multitude of races, cultures, and creeds - effectively dividing people into myriads of categories, SuperMummy has progressed beyond all that, and only sees two types. "Us" and "them". With just the tiniest of nudges they might be able to bridge that final gap and see everyone as being all the same. It has really opened my eyes as to who is the true bigot here.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 14:11

Thing is, if you abolish your human rights in order 'to get criminals', how do you protect yourself from being deemed a criminal one day?

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jaws5 · 19/01/2017 14:16

Well, isn't the whole point of having Human Rights that they apply to everyone regardless of who they are, or the wrong things they might have done? I thought that debate had been had and won in 1948, but obviously it still out there Shock

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 14:18

My MIL IS that bad. We just avoid her as much as humanly possible.

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MitzyLeFrouf · 19/01/2017 14:18

isn't the whole point of having Human Rights that they apply to everyone regardless of who they are, or the wrong things they might have done?

That's certainly my understanding! Or else pretty soon the qualifying people the rights apply to would be chip, chip, chipped away at until they protect the few.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 14:18

lurking Grin

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 14:19

"Finally, in the (new) eu, eu citizens aren't seen as immigrants because they are apart of the same 'group'. Just like, they weren't here just 1 year ago..."

Thanks salient reminder martians.

I have issues with various aspect of the EU but when faced with Brexit or having no EU, I realise profoundly that I would rather be a European than a Brit, French, Polish etc.

I adore the fact that all these different beautiful countries, that are themselves not homogenous, are in such close partnership promoting science, business culture. The European Union is a beautiful amazing thing and we have chucked it down the loo.

Worse the idiots going on about how bloody special and great Brits are (they really do mean the English though) compared with those underdeveloped Europeans with all their foreign languages and ways........ What a dumb mentality.

Yes some people have been left behind in this capitalist society but the way to correct this is education, education, education, a fair well-fare system that doesn't patronise the poor but enables them to strive and support people who are not able to strive due to illness etc..

Believe you me the Conservative party be it under May or any other leader will never support the poor and sick, it isn't what the do or have done. Sadly labour is totally failing and with this lack of opposition, no wonder people start leaving the sinking ship. This is not being a glass half full person but being flexible and adaptable.

Peregrane · 19/01/2017 14:22

"The FOM is one of the corner stone of the EU.

^^ not necessarily loads of papers on this - was it necessary in the first place how essential is it now. Its mainly benefited the poor net contributors - basically the former communist countries - who now don't want to play ball on the migration issue"

Debbie may I suggest that you are, erm, less than fully informed on that one.

Emigration from the poorer EU countries has mainly led to positive outcomes for the migrants themselves and for the receiving countries. Losing their best and their brightest to Western Europe has, however, hardly benefited their countries of origin.

"The significant outflow of skilled labor [from Central, Eastern and South-Eastern Europe] has reduced the size of the labor force and productivity, adversely affecting growth in sending countries and slowing per capita income convergence. With this trend, emigration appears to have reduced
competitiveness and increased the size of government, by pushing up social spending in relation to GDP, and made the budget structure less growth-friendly."

www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2016/sdn1607.pdf

Have a gander here in the unlikely case you are interested in what is the case:
blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2016/10/24/migrants-bring-economic-benefits-for-advanced-economies/

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 14:22

I thought that debate had been had and won in 1948, but obviously it still out there

The problem here, I think, is that those who had first hand reasons for why this came about are now largely passing away. We may well have to find out again the hard way.

I was taken to task earlier for mentioning 1920s and 30s Germany, but they didn't start in 1925 by building gas chambers. It started insidiously, with certain groups being treated as 'others' and made uncomfortable enough to want to leave.

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 14:29

staying with the metaphor of clubs,

we were bloody lucky to be part of that club. Now we have nothing other than the Conservative party, UKIP, Daily Mail, and, to enrich us further, Westmonster. Funny, once the EU has been talked down and our access to this club of clubs ceased, are they going to go after Westminster? After Brexit, will they go after the Westmonster elite in a concerted effort to...... what? What will the outcome be?

jaws5 · 19/01/2017 14:33

user what about having to obey the rules of the WTO? Do Leavers realize that those rules will also tell the plucky Brits what to do? The next step could be to do a North Korea and be truly sovereign

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 14:35

Remember that big fund that was launched with loads of publicity to help tackle rising house prices?

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/a-london-borough-with-soaring-house-prices-has-been-given-ju?utm_term=.tdomw8erg#.piwMbJYDE
A London Borough With Soaring House Prices Has Been Given Just £36,000 To TackleCrisis

The average houseprice in the borough? £500,000.

Hackney – 75% Average property price rise in last five years - average house price £500,00

Cornwall - 10% Average property price rise in last five years - average house price £201,000

Gets £5.1 million

Shall we guess which has Conservative MP and significant percentage of
Conservative voters in without looking?

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