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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 12:20

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/01/19/justine-greening-s-fair-funding-formula-will-be-devastating
Justine Greening's 'fair funding formula' will be devastating for schools

Under Fair Funding Formula, 98% of schools will be worse off. Ho Ho Ho. More Orwellianism.

This is from a government which promised in their 2015 general election manifesto that "the amount of money following your child into school will be protected". Looks a bit sick now, that manifesto pledge, doesn't it?

You mean like the one about protecting our interests in the single market?

Tory MPs oppose the government on this by the way. Which really makes you wonder about this parliamentary democracy stuff.

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lurkinghusband · 19/01/2017 12:20

I see Supermummy has time to respond to other posters, and yet list of regulations comes there none ....

TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 12:21

Martians that's my point!

The argument that 'the Germans want to sell us cars so they'll give us what we want' would be valid if we weren't already an EU member. Without doubt the EU do want full and free access to sell their goods to the UK. If we'd never been members of the EU they'd no doubt be willing to offer us just about everything May's asking for in order to secure a deal with us. But we have been members of the EU, and allowing us to retain most of the benefits of membership, without any of the commitments, would form a dangerous precedent for the EU - and they know that.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 19/01/2017 12:22

It depends what the member is offering the club!

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 12:23

debbie the FOM was set up right at the start because it was seeing that it is I possible to do trade wo also talking of freedom of movement (and politics too).
The setting up of the FOM has nothing to do with eastern countries or ex communist countries.

And IF the FOM was such an issue with people coming from there, why is that the UK refused to out a limit on the number of people from there when it was offered the chance??
Why is it that it approved said eastern countries to join the EU? The uk could have used its veto just like the french did with the uk for a long time.
Why is that it's always 'the EU' when the U.K. is part of the EU and therefore part of ALL the decisions and is responsible for ALL the decisions that have been taken so far?
Why is it that the uk is thinking its ok to take NO responsibility of its own actions?

And if the EU was soooo bad right form the stat, why is it the UK repeadily asked to be part of it, even though France was putting its veto? It MUST have seen some nice advantages to be part of it.
And if the FOM was a bad idea from the eastern countries, why not recognising that the UK cocked up?

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 12:24

How patronising of supermummy to infer working class people are unable to use political terminology correctly. Biscuit

Saying it's obvious you meant 'electorate = those who bothered to vote' is probably more an indication of the poor schooling you were unlucky to receive; or English is not your native language (again that's ok, it isn't mine either) or it's just a Brexit thread 'annoyer' who has allocated him / herself to this thread, which is indeed not a bad thing as most of the things super mummy posts are beautifully and eloquently challenged by others on the thread. it's useful to debunk the nonsensical myths some leavers have bought into and continue to believe.

in the end, this country has shown itself to be so xenophobic that it is willing to throw itself off a cliff rather than mixing with Europeans from the content. Sad

It has been suggested that this xenophobia has motivated both white Brits as well as people who are settled here but originate in other, non-European regions. I believe it was a NYT article linked to above that made me realise this. 'This country is full' is not a rational argument but shows people are opposed to sharing their cities, villages, workplaces, schools high streets with people who they perceive as 'not from here'. Sad Fear and envy are the driving emotions for this hostility.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 19/01/2017 12:24

tuckers your mixing up - they the EU are mixing up business and politics.

I don't fancy being in Merkels position right now - desperately trying to convince car makers to back her political EU stance from a now very weak position herself - to teach the UK a lesson Confused its absurd and bizarre.

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 12:25
  • continent
TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 12:26

"because you offer MORE to the club than other members in the first place."

Maybe we do now, but we won't once we've left the EU.

SemiPermanent · 19/01/2017 12:26

In my local health club/golf resort, I only pay for access to the things I want to access.

I have no say in how it's run, what rules are imposed, what changes are made etc - to do that I would have to be a full member - but that's fine, because I only want to access the pool & gym.

If the pool & gym became shit, I would stop paying to access them.

Everyone keeps going on about the eu as a 'club' - well that's fine, we don't want to be a full member of the club - we just want to pay to access the bits of it that we'd like to.

We were never properly wedded to the EU project - we were always a thorn in its side.
It makes absolute sense for both the EU & for UK for us to be friends & allies in trade, peace & security etc.

Christmaslight22 · 19/01/2017 12:28

Cakey - I agree with your thoughts. Rachel Sylvester wrote a piece in the Times (?yesterday) saying this - that the immigration situation was more fluid and the elections this year might move it up the EU agenda. A Dutch Minister was on the news (last week/week before) saying the lowest paid in Holland were starting to suffer from undercutting of wages from cheap labour in Eastern Europe being recruited through agencies and it was becoming more of a problem. Sound familiar? This is a 2year process (once the starting gun is fired). Much will change during that period, and if there is a significant change in FoM, I think there will be an argument here to revisit this.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 12:28

cakey LePen has issues with immigration from North Africa. MUch less from EU countries.
Actually the issue wu U find in France can sometimes be the opposite, e.g. When France decided to send back a groups of roumanians who had come to France and decided to live from its benefits system wo even trying to work. Everyone was sent back and there was a lot of grumbles on how cruel the government was .... compare that the current position from the uk

SemiPermanent · 19/01/2017 12:31

Much will change during that period, and if there is a significant change in FoM, I think there will be an argument here to revisit this.
Agree.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 12:32

Sorry but in the eu, the massive issue with immigration is about immigration from upside the EU. Not from the EU.

Talking about 'immigration' wo specifying what sort of immigration isn't helpful IMO.

Semi agree that the UK has always been a thorn in the side of the EU.
But when a new member doesn't integrate in a group, is it the group fault or the members fault?
I'd say that in this case, it's the members fault as it has spend most of its time going against what the majority of the group wanted to do.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 12:34

Sorry it should read
The issue with immigration from outside the EU, not from within the EU. (Think Syria, countries from North Africa etc...)

And yes there is a massive problem to solve there because atm we have only put a small plaster over what is a huge issue.
But that's nothing to do with the FOM that affects people from within the EU.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/01/2017 12:35

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 12:38

Tuckers your mixing up - they the EU are mixing up business and politics.

That makes no sense but I can assure you I'm not 'mixing up' anything any more or less than it's already mixed up. And while German car manufacturers might well have considerable clout with Merkel, they have considerably less clout with the other 26 EU members who have to agree any deal.

It's easy to overemphasise how important the UK is to Germany. We take only 7.1% of total German exports, if there were trade barriers and tariffs put in place and they lost half of their sales to us it's still only a 3.5% dip in their total exports - and that would be mitigated by them finding it easier to compete against our businesses for sales to the rest of the EU - and to those countries which the EU already has trade deals with.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 12:39

lurkinghusband We wont be smothered with ridiculous regulations
Sorry if I didn't reply to your post, wasn't a deliberate act. Obviously the day after Brexit all the regulations will be same and we can debate/change them from that point on. Yes I hear and read all the stuff that the media sensationalize, that does not mean I believe it all or shock horror even agree with them. First off I fundamentally believe the UK should have the choice to change its own laws rather than be dictated to. Secondly I would stop increasing regulation, I would change regulation on GM food, change the working time directive, exempt SMEs from regulation that is needed with big business. More than that would require a pint or a massive workforce to go through all the areas the EU regulates.

Probably shouldn't go off topic but on human rights I would end a persons right to a family life, and I would reduce criminals human rights.

user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 12:39

"we just want to pay to access the bits of it that we'd like to." Maybe, let's see if 27 countries will agree on what's a 'fair' deal in terms of accessing the bits of it that we'd like to". Do you think they will all fall over each other to pander to what our PM says she wants?

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 19/01/2017 12:39

Yes Semi and if your club is in a rough area and YOU provide a strong contingent of bouncers and security staff to keep the club operating and open - and SAFE you wont fuck off that member will you, not if the CLUB is facing unprecedented threats Confused from within and without.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 12:40

If the pool & gym became shit, I would stop paying to access them.

My leisure centre is the same, although personally I am only interested in accessing the pool. Where your argument falls down is in not realising that this is something of a concession - enough people want to use either or both but not the other facilities to make it economic for them to offer restricted membership. If few people wanted to use the pool only they wouldn't bother. Similarly if the other parts of the Leisure Centre are not used, they would be shut down.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 12:41

brexit853.wordpress.com/2016/09/26/fom-isnt-the-problem-the-problems-are-uk-governments-failure-to-implement-properly/
FOM

www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/what-does-paul-nuttalls-candidacy-mean-labours-chances-stoke
What does Paul Nuttall's candidacy mean for Labour's chances in Stoke?

I agree with this completely. An unknown UKIP candidate wouldn't scare 2015 Labour voters. Disillusioned ones leaning towards the LDs now will not switch. They will stick with Labour despite everything to keep UKIP out even if they are Remainers and disagree with Labour's Brexit policy.

Leavers will be split between the Conservatives and UKIP. How much they will be motivated is an interesting question. If the Supreme Court rule against the government will there be a backlash. Or is there indifference and frustration with both.

Paul Nuttall standing works against the Lib Dems most in Stoke Central. It doesn't necessarily help UKIP's chances. In fact I think it will do the opposite.

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RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 12:44

There won't be a deal. May doesn't want one. I would go as far as saying she perhaps doesn't need one...

The rest of us might, but that's quite irrelevant and a different thing.

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RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 12:48

Hey Gonzo. Let's chase the American Dream together.

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.
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TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 12:51

There won't be a deal. May doesn't want one. I would go as far as saying she perhaps doesn't need one...

I still like to think it's all part of a Cunning Plan™ - she's playing Policy Buckaroo until it all tips up and she can point the finger at someone else for thwarting Brexit. I decided it as soon as the 3 Stooges were appointed and nothing's happened since June to change my mind.