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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

OP posts:
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TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 11:19

A majority of the electorate voted to leave the EU aka Brexit

That depends on whether you understand the meaning of the word 'electorate'. Unsurprisingly, you obviously don't.

whatwouldrondo · 19/01/2017 11:19

Supermummy There you go again. You talk in huge generalities about how successful the future will be but when we try to pin down exactly how this success will be brought about and what exactly we are going to sell to the rest of the world that they will want to buy at a price they are willing to pay and that will make us a profit you come out with blatantly inadequate answers.

Many of us are shit scared on here because we know how the rest of the world works. We know we cannot be, and do not want to be, like Singapore post Brexit for a whole host of reasons, but the killer is that above all it's success relies, just like that of all major world economies, on its ties with neighbours and its membership of a trading block. There has been no Singexit.

user1481838270 · 19/01/2017 11:20

Doing a trade deal with America does not mean we have to end workers rights, that is just a lie.

Donald Trump is on record as stating “having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country”. He also complained in a 2015 GOP debate that wages are “too high”.

The result of a trade deal with Trump will be an erosion of workers' rights.

TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 11:21

She doesn't do much to dispel the clichés about Leave voters does she?

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 11:21

May want to get your calculator out supper. 17m isn't 52% of 40m, it's 37%

Or at least try to understand the difference between voter turnout and total electorate.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 11:22

*46m, but the percentage is still only 37%

Bobochic · 19/01/2017 11:22

Tuckers - I would Grin if it wasn't so fucking tragically true

JWIM · 19/01/2017 11:23

Apologies 23,250,001.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 11:25

Just been looking at the trade deal with Canada.

The EU has free trade deals with 50 countries, none of which involve FOM, budget contributions, the ECJ, or a customs union. Why would the EU treat us differently than the rest of the world? And surely it would give us a better deal that everyone else, since we are so important/close to them. I dont get the maniacal hysteria.

TM's plan seems pretty reasonable and realistic.

JWIM · 19/01/2017 11:26

Only if TM was negotiating with herself and her world view. I

WifeofDarth · 19/01/2017 11:27

On the bright side, the lively debate is helping us power through the pages, bringing us closer to Red's next fantastic summary Smile

prettybird · 19/01/2017 11:30

I think there are a few ignorant (in the true sense of the word) Leave voters who do not realise that TTIP would result in the loss of the sort of sovereignty that they blamed the EU for. Under it, corporations will be able to sue governments for policies which infringe in their profits Hmm that and GM/antibiotic filled/chlorine washed foods

Ironically enough, it was other EU countries who were putting in safeguards to stop some of this/protect particular sectors (eg health, film) NB: not the UK our NHS is for sale

Indeed, the Tories had said they were gap to sign it as is.

And now Trump, who was against TTIP as it didn't protect US industries enough Shock, has said that we'd be at the front of the queue for a new trade deal actually, he didn't say that but that's what the Brexiteers cheerleaders claimed

But of course, we'll have to get a Free Trade Agreement signed, sealed and delivered really quickly after we leave the EU, to demonstrate that we are "open for business" so we'll probably end up with TTIP on steroids literally Angry (And yes, I am using the word "literally" quite deliberately)

So yes, discussions about Trump are relevant.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 11:31

JWIM T
forgive me my arithmetic ignorance, but surely a majority of the electorate (46,500,001) would be 232,5000,001, not 17,410,742.

Wow didn't know there was over 2 billion people in the UK Wink I thought it would be self evident I was referring to the voting electorate ie the electorate that cared enough to get off their arses to vote, as it was kinda important.

lurkinghusband · 19/01/2017 11:32

Suppermummy02

Upthread (Thu 19-Jan-17 00:43:22) you stated We wont be smothered with ridiculous regulations.

shortly after, HPFA (Thu 19-Jan-17 06:57:08) asked if you could provide us a list - presumably to give you a fighting chance of demonstrating that you have educated yourself about the issues involved, and formulated a cogent strategy for how you intend to use your influence to help steer the UK through Brexit.

In the absence of such a list (one item can make a list) can we assume that you aren't really that informed, and are actually just parroting things you see the pictures for in the Daily Mail ?

Yes, I did mean to be that rude. But then again, it's rude to throw unfounded assertions into a discussion as if they are some sort of received wisdom. Because they most certainly are not.

So, what specific regulations will the UK be free of post Brexit.

In over 6 months of debate in a variety of forums (and languages) I have never once gotten Grin an answer to that challenge - or it's associated "what human rights are you wanting to be rid off ?". There are lots of "loads of them", "you know" Confused, "all of them" (but then no one knows a single one).

JWIM · 19/01/2017 11:34

Corrected.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 11:35

Post truth at it's finest 'everyone knows the electorate only means those who voted der' Hmm

whatwouldrondo · 19/01/2017 11:35

Compare and contrast the Leave and Trump campaigns, plenty to compare, not a lot to contrast. Of course there was no connection between Aaron Banks and the tools and techniques used by both campaigns. None at all. That can't be why Trump and Farage are claiming there is. Of course "the people" have not spoken against the "elites".

As it happens I do know a lot of Leave voters who want to be in the single market and hate Farage. They are beginning to realise, as indeed so will many voters in the US, that they were conned by the campaigns and right wing media.......

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 19/01/2017 11:36

The EU has free trade deals with 50 countries, none of which involve FOM, budget contributions, the ECJ, or a customs union. Why would the EU treat us differently than the rest of the world?

Because we are naughty, we don't toe the line, we must be punished for daring to leave Alcatraz.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/01/2017 11:37

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 11:38

No mentioning Hitler does not lose the argument - it shuts down the thread. It hasn't shut down the thread, so the argument is not lost. Nice try though.

While you are here would you like to tell us what 'Our vision of the UK is'. Has it been written down anywhere? The Tory manifesto of 2015 perhaps, could be taken as a starting point because they won the election. Commitment to the Single Market? Was this not part of the Tory vision? Have they replaced this with another manifesto?

You were asked if you were old enough to remember what the UK was like before the EEC. I am another one who was. Things were not all bad by any means. For one thing the baby boom led to a schools building programme so both DH and I had the chance to go to newish schools, brand new in his case. The NHS meant that people no longer feared getting ill and not being able to afford the doctor. Other things were less good - food was extremely monotonous, as I recall. I wasn't old enough in the Fifties to be aware of economic issues, apart from remembering my parents being worried sick by the Suez crisis, but by the early sixties the problems were so bad that we were known as the 'sick man of Europe'.

Suez was probably the time that thinking people woke up to the fact that we were no longer a World Power.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/01/2017 11:39

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 11:44

Also it's not a question of whether the eu will trade with us at all, they aren't stupid. But as they aren't stupid they are not going to give us a deal with is better than eu membership or better than single market membership should we not go down that route. Plus it needs to be a deal that also benefits them. Also, we aren't as important to them as they are to us. So the likelihood of getting a bells and whistles deal is minimal.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 11:47

Suppermummy02
I am very fervent europhile. With my 'foreigner' hat on, i am quite happy that the uk has decided to leave the EU. It has never bought into any of its values, has stopped the EU evolving many times and in general has created problems more than it has given solutions.
So I actually agree wth you that, seeing the difference of values as to what the EU should or could be, it is better for the uk to be out. Better for the EU and hopefully better for the UK.

However, I would really like to know WHY the idea of Brexit can only be the one from TM. Why can't ideas from others Leavers, have a look upthread, there is mentions of quite a few strong pro Leavers who do not agree with TM, so why aren't these Leavers ideas nothing hear, listened to and taken into account. After all, they do represent the wish of the majority of the VOTERS, dont they??

whatwouldrondo · 19/01/2017 11:52

Lurking I have never had an answer to what we are going to sell to the rest of the world either once we lose the competitive advantage we gain from the EU for our financial services, tech and science industries. Looks like May understands the importance since that was the cake she wanted whilst eating FOM and the European Courts. The banks are voting on her chances of having that cake with their feet. By the way the contingency plans unleashed so far put the scale of job losses likely in the city at a good deal more than the predicted 20000. That is what Sadiq Khan is highlighting, that a city that has shrunk by a fifth as a result of Brexit is then going to lose the competitive edge it has in its other markets by dint of economies of scale / critical mass and is going to lose out to other world financial centres. Huge impact on GDP and tax receipts.

Toosy turvy world when a labour mayor is speaking up for financial services in the face of a Tory PM who is intent of a course of action that will hobble it.

Suppermummy02 · 19/01/2017 11:52

Can somebody explain to me what Cameron did to try to reform the EU.
He sweated blood to make changes that were watered down by the EU until they amounted to half of nothing.

TuckersBadLuck
Not being an anal pedant I just speak in working class English, guess I should tip my hat more and treat Mumsnet like my doctoral thesis.

You talk in huge generalities
Because the specifics cant be known until the free trade deals are negotiated. On balance I think we are more likely to get a positive outcome if we have a glass have full approach and more likely to get a crap deal if we are freaking out about Armageddon. I can't see any reason why dozens of countries around the world will not want a trade deal with us, so I wont panic until something bad actually happens.
Many of us were/are scared about the increasing dictatorial powers of the supranational EU that is slowly subsuming our country and turning us into something we dont want and dont have a say in.

Donald Trump is on record as stating “having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing'.
Trump is not the Prime Minister of the UK, why do we have to end workers rights just because he doesn't like them. Maybe you think he is planning on invading us?

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