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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 07:25

"I am expecting announcements of friends leaving sooner rather than later now"

Four families I know of are relocating because they are f**of with brexit and the shit society we are becoming and in some ways already have become. One British / Britsih couple with 3 children, super bright the lot of them, parents, lawyers & teachers. One Britsih French family, dad a specialist physicist, mum GP trained in the UK children i guess as can be expected super bright and utterly lovely. one Greek / Scottish family moving from Lodnon to Scotland as the Greek born mum has experienced hostility for her accented way of talking English. Mum is a GP, dad a medical professor and renowned scientist, three kids, lovely and bright. Last, not least a fully Greek family who arrived here 9 years ago, he is a sought after scientist currently working at UCL (was head hunted) and she trained herself to be a certified accountant whilst also looking after her very young son. That's 8 high tax rate paying talented, decent members of society and 9 children with similar prospects. May says, we shall attract the brightest and best driving them away Theresa May, driving them away

Due to these moves, friends are separated, tax revenue and tenant lost. Sad

Mistigri · 19/01/2017 07:26

Here is North on May's speech:

Brexit: a car-crash plan - "No deal for Britain is better than a bad deal". We are so totally fucked... eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?… #Brexit

And on a fellow leaver (Peter Lilico) who suggested that a bespoke EU deal would be quick and easy Grin

The man is not only terminally thick, he doesn't read outside his bubble - otherwise he'd know the answers already.

I don't agree with him, but I like the fact that he holds fellow leavers to the same standards he expects of remainers. I'm struggling to think of any other leaver who acknowledges the practical difficulties of negotiating a good deal, and the risks of no deal/ a bad one. Are there any on here?

.

woman12345 · 19/01/2017 07:29

user1484653592 tragic. What happened in Germany 1932-38.

TuckersBadLuck · 19/01/2017 07:37

24 hours earlier Suppermummy's comment was "Project Fear turned out to be wrong and WW3 didn't start."

There was so much rubbish flying around last June that I didn't actually hear Cameron's alleged WW3 claim. As far as I can tell this is the speech which gave rise to the Leave campaign's allegations of 'Project Fear' predictions of WW3.

I can't see any suggestion of an imminent WW3 in that speech. Maybe I'm missing something or it was a different speech though?

It's water under the bridge now of course, except to Suppermummy apparently.

Caprianna · 19/01/2017 07:37

I work in banking and are preparing to move my team of 80 staff (and that's just my dep) to Europe probably already in June this year. We are mostly European nationals and we already have offices and a team where we are moving so its not a big deal. To be honest I am watching this British suicide in disbelief and feel sorry for remainers being dragged down. Watching the politicians in charge is like watching spitting image puppets at work.

HashiAsLarry · 19/01/2017 07:40

TBF tuckers we could be looking back in 30 years and seeing Brexit and Trump as long term causes of WW3. Give it time Grin

mathanxiety · 19/01/2017 08:03

That statement had nothing to do with economics, Larry.

It was a critique of May as a negotiator and politician and it offered the sober prediction of the probable outcome of this unfolding catastrophe that seems to be sorely lacking from what passes as the 'thought process' of the government so far.

If May isn't quaking in her (no doubt expensive and extremely ugly) boots it's only because she is too stupid to understand reality.

MsHooliesCardigan · 19/01/2017 08:18

remoaners are all fuckers
How eloquent and persuasive. That's completely changed my views. Bring on Brexit!! Praise be to May!!!

mathanxiety · 19/01/2017 08:24

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/18/eu-politicians-media-warn-prepare-difficult-brexit-negotiations-theresa-may-boris-johnson
Theresa May flies into a shitstorm of her own making in Davos on Thursday.

woman12345 · 19/01/2017 08:33

Imagine a country where disabled and sick people start to commit suicide en masse because there is no funding for them to live independently; where women pensioners and workers in general have their rights removed; where laws are created to create crimes after the fact ( so the principal of a guilty mind, to prove guilt is removed) ; where those who disagree with the government are vilified, threatened and physically hurt; where having a 'foreign accent' becomes unsafe; where having opposing views online invokes personal and vituperative insults; where the government passes laws on severe surveillance of the population ; where the government refuses to allow elected parliamentarians to vote on its decisions.
What would we call that country?
And imagine now, the opposite. Smile

TheElementsSong · 19/01/2017 08:46

woman I believe, based on many threads including a fairly current one about schools collecting data on pupils' nationality, the response is "It will never happen here." Although seldom expanded upon, the subtext is that, "it" won't happen because, uniquely, "we" are somehow superior to all those dodgy foreigners Hmm, they just couldn't control their baser impulses you know, and got rather carried away. Whilst "we" will ever only do whatever is rational, sensible and reasonable.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 08:57

Who's to say that we are not at the start of WW3? WW2 started with a period of 'phoney war' before it really got going.

Thinking back to Germany - the rise of Hitler started in the 1920s. It took W Germany until sometime in the Sixties to get back on its feet with the 'wirtschaftswonder'. It took until 89-91 for reunification to begin, followed by a period of adjustment up to say 2000. So do we really want to sacrifice 40 - 80 years worth of progress? Primarily to appease a few Tory loons?

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 09:04

"It will never happen here."

That was exactly how many Germans thought in the 1920s - much the same with a slightly different sub-text, theirs being 'we are educated and cultured'.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 19/01/2017 09:08

I heave to say I'm still wondering about TM speech and in particular her insistence that it's all about the 'lefts behind', the people who are suffering from the globalisation.

And I actually fully agree with her. There IS a major issue with the JAM.
I somehow just don't see the Conservative party being the best party to defend their interests (Talking historically, they aren't strong proponents of supporting people. Their stance is much more about 'your problem. If you have a get and do attitude, you will be fine')
So I am wondering, how is she going to support those people?

That point (that one alone!) is one that has been raised by various economists since the 1990s. We are clearly entering a period of change on that front. Some countries do that whilst walking backwards and refusing to acknowledge it. Others are more proactive.
I'm wondering where TM will stand on that subject if her aim is really to support the JAMs. unless it's all political stuff said to appease the right people and give them some sort of hope that things will be better for them of course

cakeycakeface · 19/01/2017 09:09

I keep wondering how the Tory party are going to survive this in the longer term?

I'm not sure the average leave voter or UKIP supporter will view the Conservatives in a kind light when the NHS goes tits up, or cost of living rises, or benefits are slashed to fund this. All of which seems inevitable to me and makes me feel sick.

....and then I remember Labour, or the lack of.

Or is it a bit like the SNP, where political decimation is worth achieving the ultimate ideological objective?

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 09:13

Repetition of slogans.

The young voted against leaving because they don't want that future

Response: They are now free to make decisions about their future.

If that's not doublethink I'm not sure what is.

Alternatively, if the young are now free to make decisions about their future, then if the majority of young wish to stay in the EU, and leaver making this point will be perfectly fine with not triggering a50.

Can't see that some how.

This IS nineteen eighty four.

I need to work on DH harder.

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RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 09:21

Law and policy @lawandpolicy
We don't want international bodies with jurisdiction on disputes in trade matters, say Leavers blissfully unaware of what WTO actually does.

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user1484653592 · 19/01/2017 09:21

tax revenue and TALENT* lost.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 09:28

Jo Maugham QC

  1. Tuesday was the high point for Leavers: a plan crammed full of brown-paper packages tied up with string.
  2. But now the real world. Where, as the philosopher Mike Tyson once observed, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
  3. Yesterday saw a number of banks announce jobs moving from London to the EU. And a veiled threat from Toyota of efficiencies or else.
  4. On Tuesday, the Supreme Court will hand down its decision. The Government is widely expected to lose - what's important is why?
  5. The Supreme Court could require that the work in the 'Great' Repeal Act be performed before Article 50 is triggered.
  6. The Supreme Court could hand real power to the Governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
  7. Neither is likely, imo, but both are possible. Either would effect a Mike Tyson style disruption to the Government's plans.
  8. Looking further forward, the Government will then have to swallow a €40-60bn bill even to begin to open trade deal talks.
  9. The Government might respond with the threat of leaving without a deal. But the consequences extend far beyond the mere mercantile.
10. Looking further forward we will see inflation hitting households on fixed incomes. And interest rate rises the heavily indebted. 11. Nicola Sturgeon on Marr committed Scotland to an Independence Referendum if it is taken out of the Single Market. 12. And Brexit may yet prove the defining issue of elections in the Northern Ireland Assembly. 13. Meanwhile, in the Summer or Autumn we may well learn that the United Kingdom can unilaterally revoke its Article 50 notification. 14. Should that happen then, whatever the Government says, there is no doubt that Parliament is supreme and can, if it chooses, Remain. 15. This reality is not, as those who wish it were otherwise, a Remainers' desperate last stand. It is what I said on 24/6/16. 16. And this is both reality and desirable. It is irrational to take a momentous decision with less evidence than will later be available. 17. Keep an open mind. Look at the evidence. Don't be swept along on a jingoistic tide. All remains to fight for.

Second reply:
Mark KW @mark_kw
Agree, but irrational to think Brexit genie can be put back in bottle. Con & Lab resigned to it with growing pop support @JolyonMaugham

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Peregrina · 19/01/2017 09:30

There IS a major issue with the JAM.
I agree and fully supporting the NHS would be a start to reassuring them - they can't afford to jump the queues with private insurance.

Otherwise, a number of projects e.g like improving the cross - Pennine rail infrastructure, or improving access to broadband could help. What do we see? Vanity projects (started before TM but not cancelled yet) - Garden Bridge, HS2, and one of the bees in Mrs May's bonnet - money for Grammar schools.

Cailleach1 · 19/01/2017 09:35

Have to laugh at today's independent.

During the referendum campaign, it was said how bonkers and out of kilter the EU was. It was the only weird place to put movement of people with trade deals.

However, when May went to court India, she was told visa loosening was part of it.

Now Johnson's visit has the same reaction.

'However, the issue of visas quickly surfaced with a senior Indian official saying “mobility issues are of importance to us; we cannot separate free movement of people from the free flow of goods, services and investments”.'
and
'India’s new high commissioner to the UK commented that the issue of the visas is not going to go away.'

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-britain-india-trade-deal-freedom-of-movement-delhi-boris-johnson-a7534026.html

But they told us the EU was uniquely out of kilter.

iwanttoridemybicycle · 19/01/2017 09:35

Remainers are a load of fuckers

How eloquent, Supermummy.
Maybe the young voted remain because most of them don't read or believe what is written in the racist, facist right wing rags like the Mail. Unlike the older generation that treat everything they read in the Fail as gospel. The older generation are easier to brainwash because of their Fail habits and they have been. I say that from experience as my Dad is a prime example Sad.
I have voted conservative in the past but Hell would have to freeze over first before I voted for them ever again.

Peregrina · 19/01/2017 09:36

Agree, but irrational to think Brexit genie can be put back in bottle. Con & Lab resigned to it with growing pop support

Not sure where he gets the 'growing popular support' from. Most people are stupendously indifferent, some of us are now more angry than we were seven months ago.

What can't be put back in the bottle easily, even if Parliament wished, is the relationship with the EU. How badly that has been damaged remains to be seen.

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2017 09:36

Law and Policy @lawandpolicy
We don't want international bodies with jurisdiction on disputes in trade matters, say Leavers blissfully unaware of what WTO actually does.

Joseph Stead @jwstead
As do many of our 110 Bilateral Investment Treaties which contain investor-state dispute resolution provisions - I'd rather ECJ than ISDS

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