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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Peregrina · 18/01/2017 09:20

Off tangent, another irregular verb I like, but could be said to be linked to Theresa May:

I am firm, you are stubborn, she is pig-headed.

Like Kaija and others, these threads have been an eye-opener for me, and I thought I was reasonably clued up politically.

AnnieKenney · 18/01/2017 09:21

Wrongtrouser - it may not be applicable to all Leavers but it certainly describes those I know. And let's not pretend that this description of Brits abroad doesnt have some truth. Leaving aside that particular accusation, I do think that most Leavers are deluded about English exceptionalism / superiority and are about to get a very rude awakening regarding the UK's actual position in the world. Of course it will all be someone elses fault.

mathanxiety · 18/01/2017 09:21

Lico - www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml
An article on the squandering of opportunity and an incredible amount of money in postwar Britain. Author Correlli Barnett.
An excerpt:
"According to Whitehall documentation of the time, Britain's 'overriding need' in regard to the Marshall Aid was to keep up the Bank of England's reserves of gold and dollars, so that Britain could go on acting as banker to the Sterling Area. But then again, it was also stated in the documentation that the 'primary purpose' must be to keep up imports, especially of food and tobacco, to say nothing of timber for the Labour Government's ambitious programme of council-house building. As for capital investment in industrial modernisation, that was relegated in the British tender to the mere category of 'clearly of great importance'.

The plain truth is that the Labour Government in the late 1940s sought to use Marshall Aid much as the Conservatives used the rake-off from North Sea oil in the 1980s - as a general subsidy for whatever they wished to do, like clinging on to the dream of a world power role. As a Cabinet Office memorandum in 1948 put it:
'It is perfectly true that if Marshall Aid covers our dollar drain, then all our payments of gold and dollars can be regarded as financed by Marshall Aid - expenses of HM Embassy in Washington, gold payments in Persia, purchase of petrol for our troops in the Middle East, every conceivable thing.'

And so we find - surprise, surprise - that during the four-year period of Marshall Aid, Britain planned to devote to net fixed investment in industry and infrastructure a proportion of GNP that was a third less than West Germany's proportion."

www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_97-01/002-3_monnet.html An article by Lyndon LaRouche partisan Jacques Cheminade in which you will find Churchill accused of fanning the flames, so to speak, of the Cold War. Interesting account of the role of Jean Monnet both during and after WW2 and the relationships between the UK and the US and European powers during WW2 and in the postwar period. Churchill emerges in a poor light.

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:23

It's necessary to split Labour in national interest now.
Form a remain SDP of the sane.

Fair enough, might be a credible source, Misti but 'elites' presses alarm bells for me.

Peregrina · 18/01/2017 09:26

I do think that most Leavers are deluded about English exceptionalism / superiority and are about to get a very rude awakening regarding the UK's actual position in the world.

Yes, some of us older ones on the threads have already commented on this. We were brought up being stuffed full of tales of the glories of Empire, and had a rude awakening when we went out to meet the world as adults. Perhaps the only surprise for me was that one the whole, the Americans were disliked more.

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:36

It's always funny when you see another country's map of the world. Britain is tiny and not in the centre. Peregrina And I remember the pink empire maps!

WrongTrouser · 18/01/2017 09:38

Annie I'm not going to take up any more space on this thread pointing out what I think is wrong with that article.

If you want to carry on thinking of 17 million people as the lager louts of Europe (and there are plenty of other parts of the article which show complete disdain for your average leave voter), then do carry on.

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 09:42

woman12345 sorry, misunderstanding there I think. The second link is to a publication that isn't obviously a crank site (it's "credible" in that sense) but the article itself is a translation of a French piece by a historian with a mixed reputation. As I am not a historian I can't make an expert judgement except to say that the author's reputation would make me reluctant to take the contents at face value without additional confirmation.

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 09:45

Annie do you want to repost that link? Thread is a bit tl;dr right now and I can't see it.

whatwouldrondo · 18/01/2017 09:47

Peregrina Maths I think you also have to factor in to an analysis of the psyche of the baby boomer generation, the English snobbery about "trade" as well as the post colonial delusions of entitlement and superiority.

The brightest and the best who emerged from our universities in the 70s sneered at business careers, status came from careers in the media or politics, not the standard grad schemes of the Corporate world. It is not just that politicians like May and Johnson do not have any experience or understanding of business and trade, at a deeper level they do not value it. They may worship her now but much was made of "the grocer's daughter"

If you take for instance Chinese culture people there, and in the diaspora, are exposed to some basic entrepreneurial and negotiation skills and business awareness from the day they are born, it even features in religious practise, you seek to amass credit in the celestial bank. Whereas a large part of the British electorate are oblivious to the realities of business and trade and negotiation and so can percieve that abstract concepts like sovereignty and control are more important than economic risk.

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:48

Like red said earlier, it's about whether now, we are all winners or losers out of whatever happens over the next 18 months.
We are all on this little island together.

AnnieKenney · 18/01/2017 09:51

Wrongtrouser: Thanks for your permission to have my own opinions but you might want to check that you aren't ascribing views to me that I haven't expressed.

Mistigirl: Here's the link

whatwouldrondo · 18/01/2017 09:52

I should add in the "Professions" to those careers given status

lurkinghusband · 18/01/2017 09:57

Roulette is a game of chance, Poker is not.

Bollocks.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1578112/Judges-rule-that-poker-is-a-game-of-chance.html

Unless you are more qualified than a nice British High Court Judge ?

HPFA · 18/01/2017 10:04

Just to cheer up everyone, here's the Daily Mail's take on things

twitter.com/Scientists4EU/status/821641152562688001

You have to wonder what happens when reality eventually overwhelms this nonsense.

WrongTrouser · 18/01/2017 10:06

Thanks for your permission to have my own opinions but you might want to check that you aren't ascribing views to me that I haven't expressed

Fair enough. Do you agree with the author of the article you linked to that 17 million leave voters can be described as the lager louts of Europe?

SemiPermanent · 18/01/2017 10:11

I think he said 17 million English voters (not Leave voters) didn't he wrong?

So factually incorrect as well as sneeringly offensive..,

Fawful · 18/01/2017 10:51

Mother why would you not vote for Clegg? Is he worse than Blair? I don't think
It can be argued that he is. And do you think the side we are opposing has any qualms or morals about anything? Don't we just stubbornly need to do what needs to be done like they do? I think it's past the time to be subtle & we need to be blunt...
(Inspired by this thread I've joined a party and have started knocking on doors asking people for their opinion in the last few months, & am trying to guide my Polish friends who want to know what's going on but don't know where to go for info. There's a lot we can do from our armchairs.)

WrongTrouser · 18/01/2017 10:51

The referendum vote does not deserve to be respected because, as an outgrowth of English narcissism, it is itself disrespectful of others, of our allies, partners, neighbours, friends, and, in many cases, even relatives. Like resentful ruffians uprooting the new trees in the park and trashing the new play area, 17 million English, the lager louts of Europe, voted for Brexit in an act of geopolitical vandalism

Agreed Semi. Very odd treatment of Wales in the article too. He doesn't quite know how to fit Wales into his analysis so he dismisses it as an "addendum" and an "afterthought" to England. Charming. And then, as you say, doesn't even get the number of English leave voters right (I think in his mind there were, perhaps, no Scottish or Irish leave voters as they don't fit his theory, in the same way that Wales has to be just dismissed.) Perhaps if the reality doesn't fit his theory, his theory needs just the smallest bit of tweaking. He's a professor, for goodness sake.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 18/01/2017 10:53

Red thanks for the stop making sense article.
I haven't ,over in a country through a war and can't relate to his fear of being spied on.
But the rest? OH YES. He has expressed exactely the feeling I have when I see things falling apart around us, and esp democracy and th democratic process (see just the latest one about having no White Paper and telling everyone that Parliament will have a say but if they don't do as they are told, the government will go ahead anyway).
I also think that, in some ways, this explains the apathy we see everywhere. How can you even start to believe that the PM, the one who is claiming to implement the will of people etc..., is actually acting against the democratic system/laws??

And again Grace is right. Apathy is the key word there. As all the Brexit stuff doesn't really have a direct impact on them (yet), it's much easier to carry on thinking that everything is like it was before.
I see it even with my own DH, let alone my PIL.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2017 11:01

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

RedToothBrush · 18/01/2017 11:03

17 million are not lager louts.

There is an element of the 17 million who do fit that description but they are not the only group and its unhelpful to say that.

The idea that we have hoards of lager louts running around Poole or Seven Oakes in just laughable.

I do agree that stereotype reveals a snobbery towards certain places especially those places which have northern accents.

Those who voted leave can be found on luxury cruises which serve posh wine every bit as much as they can be found in Bernidom. They can be found at village fêtes as much as they can be found watching the footy on the sofa in their front garden. They can wear diamonds as well as being heavily tattooed with St George's flags.

Suggesting they are lager louts is deeply unhelpful as it doesn't get to the heart of why such different groups found the idea appealling and why it will be pushed through.

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howabout · 18/01/2017 11:06

LoL wrong trying to work out exactly how many different ways to be offended by that article as a Scottish Leave voter.

OddJobsHat · 18/01/2017 11:09

Tim Farron is Lib Dem leader at present. I'd vote for a Lib, Lab, Green coalition, anything to get rid of this lot!

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 11:12

It's a silly article that should have been fact-checked, but the same can be said for many articles published daily in newspapers with a much higher circulation (express, mail) about which wrongtrousers and other leavers are notably silent.

When they condemn what the likes of Daniel Hannan and Godfrey Bloom say about remainders, I'll be inclined to take their "snowflake" complaints a bit more seriously.