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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Mistigri · 18/01/2017 07:45

no one else provides so much for their citizens

This is of course absolute bollocks.

TuckersBadLuck · 18/01/2017 07:49

Our populations are increasing all over the world and the current way things are run is unsustainable

I've had a conversation about this recently. The (apparently) level-headed person I was discussing it with blamed the world's problems on there not being enough big wars recently. Apparently we need a major war every few decades to thin the population out a bit. It's all the fault of nuclear weapons, since they've been around everyone's too scared to have a good old-fashioned world war. Hmm

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:00

MN is a bit of a microcosm - the pro-remainers here and the leavers on the pub thread but most MNers just hanging about in AIBU discussing wedding invitations.

Most people are not politically engaged and only start to care about stuff when they are personally affected. That's as true on MN as anywhere else. The regulars on this thread are a mix of the politically engaged, and those directly affected by Brexit, by virtue of their own immigration status or that of close relatives, or because they work in an international environment (both these are true for me).

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:05

Our populations are increasing all over the world and the current way things are run is unsustainable

Most developed nations, including the UK, have a birth rate below the replacement level: this means that without immigration, the population would decline and age.

TurkeyDinosaurs · 18/01/2017 08:07

"The public plans in some countries provide basic or "sick" coverage only, with their citizens being able to purchase supplemental insurance for additional coverage. "

Lico · 18/01/2017 08:10

Maths:My Dad , 86, thinks that it is a conspiracy between the U.S. and Russia to break up the EU in order to get what they did not get after WW2. i.e make some EU countries protectorates and have the dollar there.. This is why De Gaulle did not like the U.S. and did not want UK in the EEC.. with this background I would not be surprised that some older European people might have this thought as they remember some of the Allies who supported the idea of France, Germany and Italy becoming vassal states (Ps-typical French conspiracy theory and cynicism 😃 ). I wonder whether this might cloud the negotiations..

www.sott.net/article/298564-France-narrowly-avoided-becoming-a-US-protectorate-after-WW2

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:14

Posted this on another thread, but repeating here - Lico's link is not a credible one (I checked before clicking as I do with all unfamiliar sites).

Quote:

sott.net is a site that is associated with the Quantum Future Group, the new religious movement created by Arkadiusz Jadczyk and Laura Knight Jadczyk. It's not necessarily a scam, but it's a highly unreliable source run by people who believe they talk to aliens.

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:20

"The public plans in some countries provide basic or "sick" coverage only, with their citizens being able to purchase supplemental insurance for additional coverage.

This is true after a fashion, but to engage in any comparative discussion of foreign health and welfare systems you need specific knowledge of those systems.

For example, the French healthcare system (under which I am insured) is a social insurance system which mixes state and highly-regulated private "top-up" insurance, the latter usually being funded by employers. The result is that my healthcare is completely covered, right down to glasses and cosmetic dentistry, as is that of my entire family.

Peregrina · 18/01/2017 08:23

I just think everyone needs to hold their nerve and stop bashing everything.

It would be different if there was a plan, but even now, after May's hot air speech yesterday, there isn't a realistic plan. It was the usual, we will have our cake and eat it guff.

As for Britain being global and international - don't make me laugh. 65 million support her - not the Scots, Irish, or Gibraltarians. No doubt some/most of the Remainer Tory MPs are turncoats like her, but no one has asked the rest of us. The only gauge we have so far, which is not a good one necessarily, is Local Elections where the party losing most seats has been the Tories.

TuckersBadLuck · 18/01/2017 08:23

Mistigri I don't know anything about the the credibility of either site but that article first appeared in 'Le Monde diplomatique' mondediplo.com/2003/05/05lacroix

HPFA · 18/01/2017 08:28

Most people are not politically engaged and only start to care about stuff when they are personally affected.

Absolutely, and it's why the Euro 27 will recognize the Tax haven/deregulation threats as the bullshit they are. Want to be a Tory MP in a rural constituency when deregulation means that companies can open up a fracking business anywhere?

Peregrina · 18/01/2017 08:33

Want to be a Tory MP in a rural constituency when deregulation means that companies can open up a fracking business anywhere?

Why is that a problem? Lancs CC objected to fracking in its area. They were overruled. Will it lead to a loss of Tory votes in the area? Unlikely, because many are areas where a pig with a blue rosette on it would win.

Red talked about the tribalism of Labour a few posts ago - the same can be said of Tory voters.

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:34

Mistigri I don't know anything about the the credibility of either site but that article first appeared in 'Le Monde diplomatique'

Fair enough - just think people should be warned before they donate clicks to crank websites.

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 08:35

there isn't a realistic plan

There still isn't any plan, if by plan you mean "a specific set of objectives accompanied by a detailed strategy for meeting them". If there was, there would be a white paper.

Peregrina · 18/01/2017 08:38

If there was, there would be a white paper.

And if May was genuinely interested in getting a good deal for the country, the White paper would lead to a proper debate and issues being thrashed out. But what is it to her? She will be long gone by the time the sh*t really hits the fan, and married to a wealthy man, she will be alright.

I am very cynical, I know.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2017 08:51

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This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 08:57

math cool you're checking out old Solzhenitzin! Those speeches are great, and he's a readable writer.
Another book which more heartbreakingly documents how fascism starts with paranoia at work and ends badly is Life and Fate by Vassily Grossman.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/26/a-book-that-changed-me-linda-grant-vasily-grossman
Linda Grant's review here gives you an idea.

"Some are of the opinion that NI and Gibraltar are the rock on which Brexit will founder" Yes.

Red and BigChoc Since the ref result, I've been learning basics of different foreign languages on line free courses. There are loads available.
www.futurelearn.com/courses
Dutch in autumn, Spanish now.

Plus this thread has been a short course in economics, constitutional law and fascism Grin
We should design a certificate.

Did David Davis just say it's happening regardless of parliamentary vote?
Do you think Brenda or Phil could help?

whatwouldrondo · 18/01/2017 09:02

The tribalism of Tory voters. My stereotype of a Tory voter would be sat in a chintz armchair somewhere in the comfortable suburbs of an affluent Home Counties town, or the endless sprawl that joins them all up, ranting over the latest Telegraph /Daily Mail article that has wound them up. They are May's people, I wonder how many that describes on these threads?

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:06

Posted this on another thread, but repeating here - Lico's link is not a credible one (I checked before clicking as I do with all unfamiliar sites).
Alarm bells at this:
"French elites supported the idea" umm, who are the elites here?

Mistigri · 18/01/2017 09:10

There's a separate thread re Lico's link. The link posted above by Tuckers seems more legit, but the article in question is by a historian with a mixed reputation (she's a legitimate historian, but there are criticisms of political bias). I don't have the specific knowledge base to have a view on this issue.

WrongTrouser · 18/01/2017 09:10

AnnieKenney

I don't often post on this thread (but do read) but I just need to say that the article you linked to is offensive tripe

17 million English, the lager louts of Europe

Ffs, we really need to move past the name calling (on both "sides"). Stuff like that doesn't help anyone.

Kaija · 18/01/2017 09:14

I love it when people posting on mumsnet come on to a thread to tell us how pointless it is posting on mumsnet.

Yes armchair warrioring definitely an irregular verb: I am giving you the facts, you are giving your opinion, he/she is an armchair warrior.

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:17

Plan:
a lib/ lab/green remain coalition party: Clegg, Balls, Blair, Starman, Brown, Lammy, Gary Linneker form and start campaigning now, Richard Branson said he'd fund and support last year
b register as many under 30s to vote- get the fucking vote out. ( means volunteering to canvas, drive people to polling stations etc) now
c link up with democrats and socialists across US and Europe key, we have allies here and unity is strength.
d vote of no confidence (Don't ask me how but somehow)
might involve caulifowers, it did in poll tax and unseated the unseat able thatch.
e election and victory of lib/lab/green remain coalition
f remain

woman12345 · 18/01/2017 09:18

d vote of no confidence in May, call for early election (NI and Gibralter may help here)

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2017 09:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.