Can we stqrt calling it what is is?

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

It's not exit, it's independence. Alternatively we should call it sovereignty or self rule.

Loath though I am to say it, Maggie Thatcher wasn't all bad. She was supportive of science for example. Sir John Houghton as an ex Director of the Met Office commends her for the support she gave in helping the Met Office set up the Hadley Centre for Climate Research.

Children who are going into school crying are the offspring of EU citizens who don't know whether their family will be split up or not, or the whole family will have to leave for another country. Try explaining that away to an 8 or 9 year old.

If, as a parent you were in the position of not being entirely sure at this moment of the future status of EU citizens in Britain (although it is most likely that there will be no change), then why on earth would you relay fear & panic to your children when it is not necessary?

Children of Forces parents continually move round Britain, and often abroad.
Families are routinely split up for months on end, sometimes years btw.

then why on earth would you relay fear & panic to your children when it is not necessary? A sensible parent won't, or certainly not with a child of 8 or 9. With a teenager yes, I don't see them having a problem having a discussion. But what about playground gossip, which can be particularly cruel? When the child of a Polish parent comes home and says they have been asked when their Mum or Dad is going to leave? Do you just ignore what they said? It's a question I have already seen EU citizens asking for advice on.

Forces children yes, move around. Each person in the British Forces has joined up voluntarily; they had a choice and should have known whether moving was likely or not. The same can't be said of EU citizens in the UK who were not allowed to vote in the Referendum, came in under one agreement but don't know what agreement will pertain in the future and are presently in limbo as to whether they will be allowed to stay or not.

So, by that logic, because forces parents are sent away on tour and, say, oil rig workers might spend months at a time in the North Sea, it's fine to forceably repatriate a parent or family? (And, incidentally, it's no picnic being part of a forces family and continually being moved around or having one parent disappear for several months.)

EU immigrants must have realised that the UK was ill at ease in the EU and it was only a matter of time before we came out.
And no matter how much you all argue it will not change the result. Everyone on the electoral register had the opportunity to vote. Leave won.
I am delighted with the result and have written to my MP and to TM to say so.
I did not think there would be more money for the NHS.
I expected us to leave the EU including the single market. I believe this will be good for the country.
I am thinking of the Country. Some people on this thread are selfishly just thinking of themselves.
Whether or not immigration is an economic benefit to the country is irrelevant. This is what remainders fail to understand. Some communities and some individuals feel uncomfortable with it. Can you not realise that. Economic success or even economic benefit is not the end all and end all . It is much more fundamental than that.

Forces children yes, move around. Each person in the British Forces has joined up voluntarily; they had a choice and should have known whether moving was likely or not.

So what does one do when they are in the forces?
Should they leave when they become parents?
It was only in 1994 that they stopped sacking women who dared to get pregnant btw.

So, by that logic, because forces parents are sent away on tour and, say, oil rig workers might spend months at a time in the North Sea, it's fine to forceably repatriate a parent or family? (And, incidentally, it's no picnic being part of a forces family and continually being moved around or having one parent disappear for several months.)

No, that would be flawed logic.

I'm saying that the panicking & crying children are not necessary, especially as nobody has been forcibly repatriated as yet, and all the signs are that this will never come close to being a reality.

I was a Forces child.
I was also a Forces parent, as was my husband. We managed and mitigated the distress on our children when we were sent away (often at very short notice), or when we were forced to live at opposite ends of the country due to postings that we couldn't opt out of.

You're thinking of the Country, but others are selfish. This is so noble of you to be altruistic. I hope you didn't vote Conservative then.

"EU immigrants must have realised that the UK was ill at ease in the EU and it was only a matter of time before we came out."

You have got to be kidding. Surely we've heard it all now.

" Economic success or even economic benefit is not the end all and end all . It is much more fundamental than that."

Try a few years without economic success. You'll find the difference is about as fundamental as it gets.

How wonderful to be able to predict the future. In 1981 I for one never imagined that the USSR would collapse and that Germany would be reunifying 10 years later.

You would only know if you had intimate knowledge of a country or place. The reporter Micha Glenny said that Yugoslavia would collapse and was criticised for being Micha Gloomy, but he knew the country well, so was speaking from an informed position, unlike his friends.

Economic success or even economic benefit is not the end all and end all .

Really? I seem to recall concern for the "left behinds" and JAM's being a big part of the leave campaign. If there is no economic benefit to Brexit what do we have apart from some chest beating nationalism?

"You would only know if you had intimate knowledge of a country or place"
The fall of the Berlin Wall came as a surprise to everyone - even those East Germans who were protesting and trying to effect change.

Of course I voted Conservative. Most sensible people do.
I do not believe we will have economic collapse. There is no evidence of it happening. We will have trade deals with NZ, Australia, U.S. et al.
And the concern about JAMs came once TM was PM not before.
Of course we were going to leave the EU. It was only a matter of time. Those in the Westminster (or other) bubble obviously did not realise this.

Ghost....what do we have....
Ability to make and enforce our own laws
Ability to elect and remove our law makers
Ability to control our borders and hence immigration
Ability to make trade deals with all countries without being bound by EU bureaucracy
Many millions of Pounds
Sovereignty and self determination

I'm a British person living in another EU country. My father worked at the European Commission. I know loads of British people living in other EU countries and loads of EU citizens living in the U.K. The UK leaving the EU was not a subject up for discussion - people would not have made the moves with the certainty they did had leaving been on the cards.

I still have a few pieces of the Wall, collected at the time when it had been breached but not demolished. DH went to Berlin on a work trip in early 1989 to do preliminary work for an International Conference. The Wall looked permanent, and visiting Berlin was a sobering experience. 1 year later - the Wall was the way to being gone (which is when we collected our pieces.)

What have we lost? The ability to work and live in 27 other countries in highly favourable terms and to trade freely within them. And the checks and balances of Brussels on our own politicians.

same old guff. UK's financial prospects look dire post Brexit. Oh and the controlling borders thing..

Brexit: Australia eyes relaxed UK immigration under trade deal

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38704325

Of course I voted Conservative.
The Manifesto Commitment to the Single Market? TM was in Government then, so it's a reasonable assumption that she signed up to this.
Most sensible people do. A matter of opinion.

We will have trade deals with NZ, Australia, U.S. et al.
I will believe that when new trade deals beneficial to both parties are signed.

Ability to control our borders and hence immigration
Is it worth pointing out to you that TM could have enacted legislation to control EU immigration? She chose not to. She can't say that she wasn't in a position to do so. She took the easy way out of passing the buck.

And the concern about JAMs came once TM was PM not before.
Fine words butter no parsnips, as the saying goes.

Of course I voted Conservative. Most sensible people do.

The Tories spent most of the 80's trashing industrial areas. 30 years on I am expected to believe that T May is going to ride through these same areas on a white horse showering the people with cash and opportunities.

I have to wonder about what those sensible people who vote Conservative feel about the 2015 Manifesto being ripped up, for policy made on the hoof. Can't blame the LibDems for that one.

Sovereignty and self determination

Grrrrr just glanced at this thread and wish I hadn't .....the completely fallacious European Union sovereignty/ control points make my blood boil. I can't believe people still think that the EU controlled us .Really? Seven months on how can anyone have such a view?
Any comments about substantial sacrifice of sovereignty to the European Union are simply wrong. If that's the case surely by staying in the EU, we would have joint control and sovereignty over France, Germany and all other member states then?
Whilst within the EU the British Parliament has complete control* * over more than 98 per cent of public spending, and decides the vast majority of policy over the issues of greatest concern to the public.
UK has always had utter control-of :
Monetary policy
Education
Fiscal policy
Public expenditure

Health
Income tax
Corporation tax

Capital gains tax

Border control and security
Pensions
Welfare
Social security
family law
Foreign policy
Defence
Development cooperation and humanitarian aid
Local government
National policing
Criminal justice

• *Media regulation. Etc etc

The EU operates mostly like a large (and sometimes understandably cumbersome) civil service .We share with the EU (that is have Joint control) over a few matters.These are mostly to do with food ( yawn) agriculture ,fisheries, trade and environment. Plus some very basic human rights and employment matters, which are so basic you'd want to guarantee your citizens those rights anyway.
In return for that little bit of sharing we get free access * to a $16.6 trillion a year Single Market of 500m people.*
Plus it's a force for good.Peace and prosperity for 40 years, helping us become the 5 th largest world economy. Back in those halcyon days before last June.
Anyone who thinks we sacrificed significant sovereignty, just read, really read proper explanations of how the EU works. Start by absorbing this Chatham house article. Grrrrr.
www.chathamhouse.org/publication/britain-eu-and-sovereignty-myth

"If, as a parent you were in the position of not being entirely sure at this moment of the future status of EU citizens in Britain (although it is most likely that there will be no change), then why on earth would you relay fear & panic to your children when it is not necessary?"

You forget the racist abuse and attacks that have been carried out on non-British people, particularly Polish people, although even Americans have reported racist incidents.

These people are scared and of course their children will pick up on that.

It is quite amusing how I am being lambasted for thinking that attempting to overrule the will of the majority is wrong. All I am doing is protesting something I see as wrong. Why are some people allowed to protest, but not others?