Can we stqrt calling it what is is?

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

It's not exit, it's independence. Alternatively we should call it sovereignty or self rule.

I truly don't believe that as a grown adult you are actually really asking me to help you to 'heal'.
If I thought that's what you really truly meant I could of course give you advice, support & pointers.
However, any tangible advice I could give would just be a recycling of my own experiences and would be coloured by my own perspectives & personality.

What you said was:

"the divisions I feel have not healed at all in the time since the referendum. Because nobody has tried to heal them"

I replied:

"If you're waiting for someone else to do it, no wonder you've not moved on.
^
As with the most heartbreaking & devastating of relationship breakdowns you have to work at healing yourself.^"

You cannot 'heal' from anything emotions based (i.e. non-physical wounds) if you are waiting for somebody else to do it for you.
Any healing must originate from one's self.

semi your 'healing' analogy is as deluded as TM's fantasy that we are all united in wanting Brexit.

This is nothing like 'healing' after a relationship ends.

In the latter situation you have to make yourself feel better about the situation, other people have a very limited role in achieving that.

People are angry over Brexit because it is being forced on them, there are no satisfactory answers and they have no control over it. They can't 'heal' themselves because they can't do anything to influence the outcome.

Surely you can see the difference?

Or maybe you genuinely can't, which would explain quite a lot really.

It's the end of evidence based decision making, isn't it?

Yes. For me the most angering/alarming thing in May's speech (well, TBH, the most angering among many) was this part: 'Because while controlled immigration can bring great benefits... when the numbers get too high, public support for the system falters'.

Not 'when the numbers get too high, research and evidence shows us that it creates economic and social problems'. public support for the system falters

In other words, she and her party worry that people will stop voting for them.

No words.

Voting for the Tories has always been their bottom line. They would sell their souls to the Devil for it.

*People are angry over Brexit because it is being forced on them, there are no satisfactory answers and they have no control over it. They can't 'heal' themselves because they can't do anything to influence the outcome.

Surely you can see the difference?

Or maybe you genuinely can't, which would explain quite a lot really.*

Unexpected Relationship breakdowns are often forced on people.

Unexpected death is forced on people.

Unexpected job loss is forced on people.

Unexpected serious health problems are forced on people.

Unexpected homelessness is often forced on people

I could go on...,

Surely you can see that a referendum to leave the EU is (for most) rather less traumatic than the above?

Or maybe you genuinely can't, which would explain quite a lot really....

public support for the system falters

But to be a little less cynical, the reason public support matters is that we live in a democracy and the job of the Government is to govern in the way people wish. So if a policy is unpopular (and before the referendum polls pretty consistently showed around 70% of people were unhappy with the level of immigration), it should be changed.

Are some people's views not important? Do you want a benign dictatorship Sapphire?

The "healing" necessary can only be done when those in charge address the very valid concerns and act in an inclusive way, helping the divided population find common ground

I don't disagree with this. What sort of actions would remainers like to see the Government making to find common ground?

Wrong, I think the job of the government is also to lead; to be responsible and accountable; to present things to people truthfully. I am in favour of evidence-based policy.

No, I don't want a benign dictatorship, although thanks for the head-tilty question. I am, however, concerned about us sliding into populism.

Speaking from personal experience and a conversation my sister and I had only this morning, we both agreed that the result of the EU referendum is the most unexpected and traumatic experience of our lives. For the record we lost both our parents and she lost her husband and I was diagnosed with a brain tumour within a year (April 2015 to April 2016). None of those things remotely cause as as much trauma and uncertainty as Brexit.

I would like to see the PM drop her hectoring tone and start negotiating - bat the ball back and forward. I would like to see her start to admit that 48% of those who voted wished to Remain, instead of virtually pretending they don't exist. I would like her to recognise that a number of Leave voters expected support for the NHS , and voted Leave on that basis - which for all her weasel words, she hasn't yet convinced anyone that she is supportive of. I would want to see a much more robust condemnation of the hate crimes that we have seen since the Referendum - again we had a few empty words the other day, but no more.

I would like to see a proper Parliamentary debate, with the arguments for Leave thrashed out and published in a White Paper.

Those will do for a starter.

I would go with all of Peregrina's list, which are of course all things you would naturally expect from a well-functioning democracy.

Apologies, it wasn't meant in a head-tilty way. Your post seemed to imply that you don't believe population being opposed to a policy is sufficient reason to change it, and I have trouble understanding how that fits in with a belief in democracy.

I don't understand why research showing high immigration creates social problems would be a good reason to change the policy but people expressing unhappiness with high levels of immigration is not a good reason. I don't understand why people's own views on how they would like their country run are less valid than research. Some people have different values - research is not going to be able to measure that.

Can you explain what you mean by sliding into populism? The word gets used a lot these days, and I am not sure what people mean by it (I have tried very hard to sound non-head tilty, I would genuinely like to know what you mean).

My last post was in reply to Sapphire

People are angry over Brexit because it is being forced on them, there are no satisfactory answers and they have no control over it

Like people - were angry with the EU and ever closer political and social union forced upon them with no vote

Semi I like your healing analogy and the thing is - however you want to frame it - Remainers - some do need to look at some sort of healing and reconciliation.

You can do that and still be opposed to Brexit. Being angry is going to do oneself harm.

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die

I can only talk from my own strategies but I can see benefits to remaining in the EU even as a passionate leaver. Had we lost the vote I would have been deeply dismayed - but I would now be focusing on the positives and working within that.
There are positives to both sides. You need to train your brain to think that way.

A genuine question for remain voters.

What do you think the EU will be like in 20 years time ?

The loss of her husband was less traumatic than the result of the Referendum? Did I really just read that ? What an appalling post

Not what you'd like it to be but what it actually will be like with or without the UK

Thanks for your reply Peregrina , reply from me to follow when I have pondered further.

Infinite - yes, the death of her husband is much less traumatic than Brexit. The upheaval in her life from Brexit is far, far greater.

Like people - were angry with the EU and ever closer political and social union forced upon them with no vote

I don't get this 'No vote' story. Major was voted in as I recall. If people can't be bothered to engage with the political process and e.g write to their MP to express their views, then yes, they will get what the politicians think people want (or what the more self serving of them think will serve their and their party's interests.)

You might just argue that Brown wasn't voted for, when the Lisbon Treaty was ratified, and Theresa May made much of this at the time, but of course, she is now in the same boat. Since her interpretation of what the Leave vote means is significantly different from what many thought they were voting for, should she not be seeking a further Referendum, especially since she was so critical before? Far from wanting to do this, she was seeking to bypass Parliament and even now does not plan to publish a White Paper.

So why are you not calling for another Referendum now, to thrash out what sort of Leave option people really want?

I should add since you are so unhappy about things being forced upon you with no vote. Or it's only some issues that should be voted on?

It is mind-boggling, Peregrina, that TM does not deem it necessary to put her interpretation of Brexit to referendum. There are as many Brexit scenarii as there were Leave voters, given that there was no published and agreed scenario at all. Which is very different to the Remain vote where 48% agreed on the scenario they were voting for. In that interpretation, Remain was the majority vote...