The Brexit Arms. A friendly place for anyone wanting to chat about Brexit.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair and relax.....

wrong, your last post has highlighted exactly why we are in this predicament now; the vote to leave the EU or not was not about changing or protesting about British politics

Did I say it was Bear?

You have completelymis understood what I was saying. I am talking about whether people are thinking about their own part (or that of those who think like them) in how we arrived at where we are now.

And this is more of the same isn't it?: Someone says something you don't agree with or understand. Do you question them, or ask them to explain and expand, try to understand what they are wittering on about? Or do you just try to win a point, even if you have to misinterpret them to do so?

Why do you think voting Leave was ever going to change the face of British politics?

Do you not think it already has Bear??

Attempting to change

I couldn't give a fuck about a country I don't live in not letting in people I don't know.

To

i don't give a shit about people being held up in a warm comfortable airport being fed and looked after

How did you actually think the people were being held Bear?

wrong your consistent insistence i don't hear others arguments is tiresome.

I read your point and asked why you thought voting Leave will change politics which is how your comment read to me.

Instead of making your point clearer you harp on about point winning.

semi it hasn't changed it for the better. It hasn't answered the questions the disenfranchised were revolting against- quite the opposite in fact. They are so low down the list of priorities now that it's likely things will get worse for them, not better.

I don't think that someone is racist, or xenophobic, or a "bad person" for not giving a fuck about what happens in another country. I do think that they are incredibly naive (bordering on stupid) though.

How did you actually think the people were being held Bear?

OMFG you are actually in some kind of cult on this thread.

wrong, your last post has highlighted exactly why we are in this predicament now; the vote to leave the EU or not was not about changing or protesting about British politics

Bear This sentence implies that I was suggesting or somehow believe that the referendum was about changing or protesting about British politics.

Please explain how you have come to the conclusion that I am saying this based on my post, or indeed any previous posts I have made?

Cult?

Why do you think that it is a cult?

Why is it your immediate reaction to people thinking differently to you, to question if they are in fact part of a cult?

Bizarre.

I was just about to post exactly the same thing Semi, where do you think they were being held?

For some, It's like we have suddenly landed where we are, with another fairly right-wing conservative government after years of austerity from Cameron and Osborne and absolutely no credible opposition and a Labour party which is just a shambles, and President Trump, and it all just happened because of the forces of evil, and is absolutely nothing to do with how the left and liberals have conducted themselves over the last few years.

There seem to be very few on the remain side questioning any of this

wrong, what did you mean by the sentence about Remain not questioning the paragraph above if it wasn't implying Leavers used their vote to express their frustration at the points you made in the first paragraph?

Why is it only for Remain to question those factors?

semi if your happy to be convinced that surfer actually meant the stuff about being nice and warm in airports then there's no point in arguing with you.

It's the most blatant back tracking I've seen on these threads but if you disagree that's your call.

I cannot see the link between me asking where you though people being vetted or detained at airports were being held, and me being a member of a cult.

Please could you expand on why you think there is a cult on this thread.

Is this assertion based on facts, or is it an hysterical, hyperbolic over-reaction?

Ok, I see where you are coming from now. No, I don't think it is only for remainers to question how we got to where we are. I think every right-minded person should be questioning this.

The point I was trying to make is that some remainers' reaction to their unhappiness with where we are (Trump, Brexit, Tories) is entirely to vent their spleen at the people they see as the opposition, and to talk as if there are no wider factors at play other than some nasty far-right wing types have somehow (without any particular atmosphere or discontent or political failings being necessary for them to become more influential) gained power.

This is not the same as saying people voted leave in protest at the status quo. I have said many times I don't believe this is the case (there may have been a few people who did but I don't believe it was many).

So to summarise:

1. we are where we are
2. people need to think about why we are where we are including their own part in getting us here
3. how people voted at the referendum doesn't really have anything to do with the point I am trying to make. The relevance is just that it is remainers who I see not doing 2) whilst doing a of finger-jabbing and blaming instead.

The cult referred to the fact I think you've been brainwashed if you genuinely believe surfer was referring to the conditions people are held in in airports in the US.

It was blatantly obvious yesterday she was not talking about waiting times at the airport, rather that she genuinely couldn't give a shit if people she doesn't know can't go to a place she doesn't live, but if you've somehow convinced yourself she was that is your choice but I find it quite unbelievable.

Everything I say is the worst example of anything you've ever seen Bearbehind

You think I've been brainwashed?

Thank you for the reply wrong

I see what you're saying but I think the time for blame is well past.

The major frustration now is the lack of direction after all this time.

TM toadying up to DT last week and holding his hand made her look pathetic and desperate IMO.

since we're sticking 2 fingers up at the EU it seems we're aiming to pander to a country who's president is acting in an extremely divisive and dangerous manner and no one will call him out on this because we 'need' them.

DT has made it clear the US is his priority and that's fine but his actions are far more wide reaching than his own shores and it looks like we're just waiting for the scraps we get thrown.

I don't understand why anyone would be happy with that.

Everything I say is the worst example of anything you've ever seen

Sadly it's true though.

You shock me then you stoop lower next time.

TM toadying up to DT last week and holding his hand made her look pathetic and desperate IMO.

Firstly, he grabbed her hand unexpectedly - I thought that was known now?

Secondly, I didn't see any toadying up - I saw TM getting an explicit assurance that he'd not abandon NATO as per his previous haverings.
I saw TM behaving as a politician & Prime Minister, rather than a shouty, finger-pointy student.

since we're sticking 2 fingers up at the EU it seems we're aiming to pander to a country who's president is acting in an extremely divisive and dangerous manner and no one will call him out on this because we 'need' them.

I disagree.
We are not pandering to him.
Do you really, truly believe & think that just because TM etc haven't tweeted a ream of outraged hysteria they are not 'calling him out'?

I believe DT is deliberately trying to provoke a reaction and, in this age of social media, comments made in haste will make matters worse, however the fact remains, by leaving the EU we are aiming to increase trade with a country who's president is extremely volatile and that is not good.

And the president of that country will not be there forever.
Maximum 8 years.

Its cringeful, seeing posters come on suddenly championing people at airports because its the supposed right thing to do right now.

Yet when other examples of people suffering have been presented to them, they have been dismissed because they don't fit with the narrative. Its embarrassing.

Semi the whole world saw it as a quick hand grab, not a carefree lovers skip down a path! People only see what they want too - or believe odd media outlets.

the whole world saw it as a quick hand grab, not a carefree lovers skip down a path! People only see what they want too - or believe odd media outlets.

The irony of that comment is laughable.

You have clearly only seen what you want to.

A 'quick hand grab' would have been if she tripped or stumbled.

He put his hand out and she took it whilst walking for several steps.

He would not have done that to a male Prime Minsiter and she should have been able to walk along without his hand, as she would with any other person.

This cynic in me thinks he did it to make her look weak- and it worked.