The Brexit Arms. A friendly place for anyone wanting to chat about Brexit.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair and relax.....

Good evening Elements & all

Lively in here tonight.

Some great points in your last post Debbie

Cross post, your last post but one (not saying your last post wasn't great too of course..)

A Visa restriction is not the same as an outright ban on entry, Semi. Trump has ordered the current situation, Obama is not in charge right now.

Surfer, good for you. We don't see this outrage over what happens in other countries....Zimbabwe for example.
Pulls up bar stool, double Jack Danials please, good American drink.

Does no one understand why people might be incredibly upset with Trump?

More so than they might be with other countries?

I can come up with at least one reason...

There is no way i am going to write it because i will write it wrong and be literally drummed out of mumsnet

Oh and people can get upset over what they like

You all know that right?

Going to bed so im not being rude if i dont respond to something

Hey surfer

Oooh and wrong

Well Rufus it's a shame that not all humans can live in a 100% consistent manner at all moments of their lives, although of course we must all try to emulate the better role models here. And if we haven't 100% consistently lived in a particular way, this renders any of our individual deeds or thoughts completely irrelevant.

Or, "look over there!"

I believe his actions have sadly played right into the wrong peoples hands

Yes I agree with this which is why I feel in this particular matter we could do well to distance ourselves - the American people need to deal with this (or not) and they are more than capable. We don't need to be sticking our oar in and they certainly won't thank us for it.

Trying - I'll join you for a double JD if there's room at the bar

Cross posting again, to rufus

elements

What?? Where??

wrong

Deffo off to bed now, anyone else do those last minute checks on mumsnet before they switch the computer off?

No? Just me

There is some world class whataboutery on this thread.

I guess if any of you see someone breaking into your neighbour's house you don't call the police, because somewhere on the other side of town there's probably a murder happening...

This is literally almost identical to the run up to WWII. The comparisons with Hitler have never been more apt.

Most of my family died in the Holocaust. If the civilised countries in the world don't act en masse, there is no doubt in my mind that deranged hate-fuelled bigot who believes the law does not apply to him has the capacity to plan another Holocaust and maybe even another world war.

Hi all < I'll have a very quick one >
was watching Apple Tree Yard
& now I'm off to bed as have to be up early, why do weekends go so fast

I guess if any of you see someone breaking into your neighbour's house you don't call the police, because somewhere on the other side of town there's probably a murder happening...

Not only that, but you openly declare that you don't give a shit about the crime victims because they're from a backward place anyway (actual word from up thread) and everybody either nods sagely or pretends they didn't hear you say it.

Oh, and

DT told all of America many times that he would do this if elected.
He was elected. He is doing what he said.
Are you all outraged because a politician is keeping promises?
If only ours did the same?
Nick Clegg? Tuition fees?
I would never have voted for Trump. But I really don't understand why everyone is getting so upset because he is doing what he said he would do. He is also building a wall.
Amazing. He was not lying.

If Zimbabwe was the world's largest economy, had the world's most powerful military, was a nuclear armed state, was our biggest trading partner outside the EU, a major political ally, our biggest military ally, and professed centre of the free world, then yes I would be just as outraged.
hth

DT told all of America many times that he would do this if elected.

And this is the most worrying thing, people voted for this, I would bet it is highly popular amongst large numbers of Americans.

I am a firm Remainer, I used to argue that voting Leave didn't necessarily mean people were racist (despite the evidence of my own family) over the months talking to people, and reading these threads, I've changed my mind. I now think almost all Leave voters I've ever met or heard, are motivated primarily by racism, they have become quite open about it. I'm not surprised there is so much support for Trump on these threads.

When you have have Grandparents who started their adult lives in Germany at the beginning of the 1930's there is a tendency to carry what I saw termed as collective guilt around with you. My DS went to a Holocaust Memorial last week and came home asking what part they played and I see that now passing to him. As I told him, my view is I can't change what happened but it is my duty to speak up when I see things are wring and they absolutely are now.

I spent many hours talking to my Mum about all this before she died just before the Referendum. I needed to feel I knew them and the people they were , to understand wtf happened to understand in an attempt to stop it ever happening again. As I told DS they were not bad people, my Grandmother felt very strongly about Hitler and would take my Aunt to confession after she attended Hitler Youth.

Basically they were no different to most of us on this thread, they were parents and worked hard for their 3 daughters. and self preservation kicked in,. My Opa went to fight as he would be shot if he didn't and he was worried about the repercussions to his family.

The one thing which has always made me feel,just fractionally better about it all was the fact the world had learned from their generations failure . But recently I have felt I'm wrong and I am very scared at what I see going on around me. My Mum remembers my Grandmother crying for days when she found out about the concentration camps , saying how could this be, and how could it happen and they didn't know. Geographically they were far from any of the camps so I think she genuinely didn't know, information was tightly controlled and they were grassed up by neighbours and their illegal radio nearly discovered. If it had I wouldn't be here.

Do not kid yourselves that you are any different to my Grandparents and their contemporaries. To deny there are now parallels with 1930's Germany and turn round and call people hysterical is incredible to a lot of us as you have lessons if history to look to and are ignoring them.

I am heartened to see some leavers on various thread who absolutely get it but sickened by those who don't. I'm hesitant to post this as hate confrontation but know this is not the time to be quiet.

Mirabelle

Thank you for posting that Mirabelle I think we all need to examine the darkness in our own hearts as well.

Donald Trump is a racist.
He said he would introduce racist policies, and has done so.
If you support him, what does that make you?

FFFs - to be quite honest this is exactly what happened post Brexit, people have made the assumption that if we voted Leave we are supporters of Nigel Farage in the same way we are now supporters of DT.

There is obviously a deeper problem that some people in the U.K. have with democracy not just in this country but now in other countries as well because they don't like the result. This is what the Americans voted for.

Unless it's changed in the last 24hts this is the 'Brexit Arms' and not 'Trump Arms'.

Maybe rather than coming on here accusinng Leavers of being Trump supporters your time would be better spent on an American forum where you can 're-educate' some of those American citizens who chose to vote in a way you as an 'outsider' deem incorrect.

Well done for sharing Mirabelle but I fear you are wasting your time, sharing it on here. Surfer and some of her mates on here just don't give a shit. They told us that yesterday.

The 939,000 people who have signed the Trump petition are all hysterical, don't you know.

I know which side of history I want to be on and it's certainly not the same side as Surfer, the side that did nothing, just let it happen and cheered along the way.