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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris and the Country find out what ‘Mayism’ looks like.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2017 11:04

Its fair comment to say that Theresa May doesn’t like people who disagree with her.

In her New Year’s message, the Prime called for unity. She insisted that she would represent the interests of the 48%. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding these comments rather at odds with her actions.

The New Year hasn’t started to well for her with the resignation of the UK’s ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers in which he accused the government of ‘muddled thinking’ and urged civil servants to stay strong in delivering bad news to ministers.

Rogers had, made a point of stressing that the UK needed a transitional deal which would be around 10 years which went down like a cup of cold sick. His resignation has been greeted by howls of joy by rampant Brexiteers. Yet given that when the UK entered the much less complex European Community in 1973, we had a seven year transition period in, the suggestion of a 10 year exit, actually makes sense if you want to Leave the EU and its far from an obstructive position. Rogers has subsequently commented that he thinks we have a 50:50 chance of a chaotic exit now, given ministers refusal to listen to reason.

In all honesty that looks like an optimistic assessment at this moment in time.

It all begs the question of what next?

To look at the future, it’s worth rewinding a little and seeing how we got here. Just how did May become PM over and above her political rivals when she has very few political allies and friends.

Back in October 2015, as still Home Secretary, Theresa May made her speech at the Conservative Party Conference and said that immigration makes it "impossible to build a cohesive society."

This Telegraph Article from the time made the observation that the speech was designed to fan the flames of prejudice in a cynical attempt to become Conservative leader

How is this ever going to be reconcilable with Remainers? That is not just an anti-immigration stance. It goes way beyond that. May was apparently a reluctant Remainer, but there has always been this accusation that she was never fully on board and never actively campaigned. I just don't buy it anymore.

Then there was how she worked with the Coalition Government.

In September the Liberal Democrats made the accusation that she repeatedly trying to interfere with a crucial Government report on the effects of immigration back in 2014. This was not the first such accusation. It suggests she was anti-expert and post-fact just as much as any hard core Brexiteer. Norman Baker also accused her, before he later resigned, of suppressing information about to deal with people on drugs. His resignation letter, is incredibly reminiscent of Ivan Rogers resignation letter:

In a scathing verdict on Ms May’s leadership, Mr Baker warned that support for “rational evidence-based policy” was in short supply at the top of her department.

And

He told The Independent yesterday that the experience of working at the Home Office had been like “walking through mud” as he found his plans thwarted by the Home Secretary and her advisers.

“They have looked upon it as a Conservative department in a Conservative government, whereas in my view it’s a Coalition department in a Coalition government,” he said.

“That mindset has framed things, which means I have had to work very much harder to get things done even where they are what the Home Secretary agrees with and where it has been helpful for the Government and the department.

“There comes a point when you don’t want to carry on walking through mud and you want to release yourself from that.”

Was Theresa May to blame? Did Norman Baker have a point? Well Ivan Rogers seems to think he does.

The Economist’s Indecisive Premier article does say that May worked well with people she got on well with or had a shared vision with – including Lynne Featherstone, the first Liberal Democrat to work with her at the Home Office. The trouble is, that there is an ongoing pattern of her having problems with those she doesn’t get on with and her desire for control and micro management lead to a tendency to build an echo chamber rather than build a consensus or more pragmatic approach. It also notes she had personal clashes with Gove, Osborne and Johnson on key issues. Its not just Liberal Democrats she has a problem with. Of course, she only has one of the three in her current Cabinet. Let’s not forget Mark Carney either. It rather leads you to suspect that Baker was not the first, nor will Rogers be the last.

This does not bode well for compromise with the EU. May does not seem to do compromise unless backed into a corner and then its because she has been forced and then not on her terms. May can not bulldoze in the same when she does eventually sit down for talks.

It does not bode well for the future of this country, if senior positions are only for Yes Men regardless of whether you are a Remainer or a Leaver. If she has these ongoing issues with Gove, Osborne and Johnson, is it a problem? Will they continue or will they quit? Will Davis or Fox get frustrated at her constant slap downs. Will the lack of friends be a problem in the long run. Especially when one of her closest allies in Phillip Hammond is also seeming to be facing the same frustrations.

Of course, no friends, also means May has plenty of people she has no problem with throwing under the Brexit Bus.

Will May take any responsibility if it all goes wrong? Who did Theresa May blame for not achieving the all-important immigration target in 2014?

Theresa May: Lib Dems to blame for immigration target failure

It was not her failing. Of course.

And the legal battles she lost whilst at the home office? Not her fault. It was the left wing liberal human rights lawyers, therefore Human Rights are the problem and must be removed.

Never hold up the mirror and admit your beliefs are wrong. Fudge the figures, supress the reports, fuel the flames, blame others, send people to Coventry or ignore them until they quit in frustration. Anything but take responsibility or listen to what you don’t want to hear. She is well versed in it all. These are not the hallmarks of a great consensus builder.

When May calls for unity, is it genuine or merely a precursor for the inevitable blame stitch up? Excuse my cynicism but this is the very definition of what Mayism is. Oh and don’t forget the Red, White and Blue bit. Patriotism the last resort of the scoundrel.

May is set to make a speech later this month outlining her commitment to Brexit. It sounds like yet another guaranteed source of conflict and division rather than unity. Davis and Johnson are helping write it. Fox has been sidelined... which fits with the rumours that he's first under the wheels.

May WILL unite Leavers and Remainers in the end. In how we look back at how she drove us off the cliff and how she sold us all down river with her hard headed blinkers.

Unfortunately the chances are, this will be after it is too late at this rate, unless people on both sides wise up and realise what is really at stake.

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 17/01/2017 10:18

But then it has already happened before with non eu immigrants. No one thought it was that cruel then....

It's taken the Brexit vote for people to wake up to see what was already happening. Even now, there are plenty of people who can't see a problem with e.g. schools or firms being asked to compile data on place of birth and nationality. So what? is their response.(Other MN threads running now on this very issue.)

BuntyFigglesworthSpiffington · 17/01/2017 10:24

That is a dreadful poem - William McGonagall will be turning in his grave

Ah, William McGonagall. Otherwise known as 'the worst poet in the history of the English language'. It's apt that Trump is a fan.

squoosh · 17/01/2017 10:38

’This is the grimmest its felt since 24th June. And I can only see it getting grimmer.’

I feel the same. Close to despair.

And all those cheering think this is one in the eye for the EU. Well perhaps, in much the same way Thelma and Louise stuck it to the man as they drove off the cliff. I’m sickened by May, using this referendum result to turn GB into an isolationist backwater. All to get in the good books of the Ukippers and to do whatever it takes to keep the Tories in power. And then what, when the economy has tanked and people start mewling that this wasn’t what they envisaged? Short term thinking to ensure long term pain. Well done Theresa.

Gah, I’m so full of rage today.

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 10:39

There has been a long process of softening up the population for this. Go and read AIBU and you'll see that people no longer believe that the state has an obligation to provide basic services like health and education.

People even those of modest means now accept that the NHS can or will no longer provide a comprehensive health care service and are taking out private health insurance (often with a very limited understanding of what it actually covers). And there's a thread on AIBU right now in which the majority of posters appear to believe that a school is under no obligation to adapt to a child who is temporarily using a wheelchair; it's apparently fine for the kid to miss 6 weeks of school.

BlueEyeshadow · 17/01/2017 10:49

I am screamingly angry today. It's my son's birthday and I have no optimism for his future in this country. I'm scared and right now I'm finding it very hard to forgive anyone who voted for this mess.

I have written an emotional blog post on the above lines, and a more dispassionate email to my MP (again - he hasn't answered any of them yet), quoting quite a lot of the good points made above.

I don't know whether I'll send either of them just yet though.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 10:49

Well done Theresa.
I take comfort from thinking that she will join the ranks of Lord North, who lost the American colonies, Chamberlain who appeased Hitler, Eden who misjudged the Suez situation - these last two perfectly successful politicians until their spectacular failures for which they are remembered. Cameron, the idiot who thought 'he would be good at being PM' , who wasn't able to win the election in 2010, and in 2015 called an unnecessary Referendum to shut the UKIP tendency up. Who was so good at being PM that he destroyed his own political career, and such successes as he claimed in his departure speech were won only with Labour and Lib Dem support. Not exactly someone being good at PM then.

May a pedestrian, unimaginative, blinkered PM who will blame everyone else when it all goes tits up.

Cailleach1 · 17/01/2017 10:59

If the UK is out of the customs union, then I don't see how it mean anything other than border customs checks between Ireland and NI. The Common travel area is just for people, not goods.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 17/01/2017 11:02

Possibly No clarity on the single market or how to control immigration today!?!

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs · 17/01/2017 11:06

There has been a long process of softening up the population for this. Go and read AIBU and you'll see that people no longer believe that the state has an obligation to provide basic services like health and education.

YY and i have to say I despair at the British population overall. It's not just apathy. It's the lamb that has been taken to the slaughter house and believes he is taken away for a holiday.

This is also the reason why do not see any future for myself here. I don't see a future for my children either.
It's not just Brexit and whether I can stay in the uk (I might, I might not, who knows...). It's about accepting to live in such a society that is showing so much contempt for its members.

squoosh · 17/01/2017 11:09

'Go and read AIBU and you'll see that people no longer believe that the state has an obligation to provide basic services like health and education.'

This is true. There's an impatience with anyone who's unhappy that schools are looking for evidence of children's nationalities. There's a 'oh stop being so silly, what have you got to hide?' mentality. The great under-thinkers.

Dimwitted lambs indeed.

squoosh · 17/01/2017 11:19

UKIP leader Paul Nuttall making a laughing stock of himself again this morning.

‘Massively excited about Donald Trump!’ says Paul Nuttall. ‘It's clear he's an Anglophobe!’

Seeing as he’s so fixated on making sure foreigners speak English correctly maybe the dolt should think about booking himself in for a few English comprehension classes.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 17/01/2017 11:20

That's brilliant!

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 11:29

It's the lamb that has been taken to the slaughter house and believes he is taken away for a holiday.

Good way of putting it.

If I had to reproach the Lib Dems for one thing (bear in mind I'm a member lol) it would be for participating in this softening up process as part of the coalition. I'm sympathetic to the argument that in coalition you have to make tough choices, and also to the idea that the LDs acted as a significant brake on the right wing of the Tory party (the last two years have made this abundantly clear). Nevertheless it was a horrible mistake to give legitimacy to the idea that Britain "can't afford" the basic services expected by citizens in a modern liberal democracy.

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 11:31

Fortunately Nuttall gives every impression of being totally unelectable. Only about 15% of kippers think he's any good!

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 11:31

There's an impatience with anyone who's unhappy that schools are looking for evidence of children's nationalities. There's a 'oh stop being so silly, what have you got to hide?' mentality. The great under-thinkers.

Sadly, we have been here before. That is exactly how a good many Germans thought in the 1920s - Jews were loyal Germans, they fought in WW1, what did they have to fear? People began to wake up when their own Jewish Doctor or Dentist disappeared, but by then it was too late.

In the same way, we are beginning to wake up as to just how nasty our own immigration laws have become. Thanks Theresa May. If they eventually come for you, don't whinge about it.

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 11:33

By the way of looking at how this government's policies work on the ground, especially in relation to the JAMs, I have just been reading how the new funding arrangements for primary schools are going to work out locally. It could not be more starkly obvious from the list of winners and losers that they are intended only to benefit the already privileged. The local schools with mixed catchments, higher levels of EAL, FSM and ESN are all losers. Now the JAM argument runs that these measures of deprivation have been blunt instruments and meant the help flowed to these groups but missed the JAMs, except that these schools serve catchments that are the only areas in the borough that JAMs can afford to live. The schools that are winners serve leafy roads where a family house starts at £1m, and £3m would not be unusual. They have high numbers naturally going on to private schools (I say natural because there is an issue in the borough that with not enough secondary school places parents feel forced to go private or move who would take a state school place if they were sure of one). Many parents see the decision at 4 as being between a place on a local outstanding Primary plus tutoring versus a Prep School. These schools are not full of the JAMs, but they are full of aspirational Tory voters. This was an issue at the last election too when suddenly sources of funding were made available for capital spending on building works at schools that serve the more privileged parts of the borough. Once again actions speak louder than words......

whatwouldrondo · 17/01/2017 11:40

By the way I was very aware of how the implementation of immigration policy was affecting non EU immigrants and signed countless petitions and cheered from the sides when lawyers were drafted in to help students who were being deported as a result of the illegal move to exclude those students who had sat the language tests that May declared invalid. Anybody with connections to the London Universities, which have the highest levels of overseas students in the country, could not be unaware of the scale of the discrimination against both students and alumnae.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 11:45

Nevertheless it was a horrible mistake to give legitimacy to the idea that Britain "can't afford" the basic services expected by citizens in a modern liberal democracy.

Agreed, and despite our present woes, we are still a wealthy country in global terms. Big mistake by the Lib Dems (and I am one too.)

jaws5 · 17/01/2017 11:51

There has been a long process of softening up the population for this, yes, I have been thinking this for a while. I haven't posted in a while but I really appreciate this thread and I read it everyday. I cannot believe we are living this dystopia, I have never been so scared. Can't this really be happening, that half the population will wave the flag of nationalism while they and their children are being isolated from their European neighbours, with whom they share history, culture, language, relationships, just across the channel? While thinking that they will actually be more prosperous in a tax-haven that does away with "European style social model", in Hammond's words? What do they think this means if not abolishing the rights guaranteed by the EU that we all take for granted now?
TM is so clearly out of her depth that she prefers no negotiation and a clean break, as it's easier in the short term and will appease Con-ukippers. Incompetent and ruthless, terrifying combination!

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 11:52

clearly she is holding this speech because it's likely may knows that the article 50 supreme court will be in favour of involving parliament in trigger a 50. after this speech it will be less possible for MPs to vote against a50.

she wearing the same tartan jacket as at her inauguration speech, what a joke.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 11:54

what a whole lot of tosh Confused utter utter hot air bubble yuck

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 11:54

Godfrey Bloom‏*@goddersbloom*
The reality is Leavers create wealth, Remainers in the main consume it.
When push comes to shove Remainers are of no value to society.

Oh dear, oh dear. Apparently he has now deleted this, but some kind soul had already saved it, and is now sharing it widely.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 11:55

build a truly global Britain? i thought she said that citizens of the world are citizens of nowhere?

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 11:56

she sounds like she is reading a bed time story

squoosh · 17/01/2017 11:57

I saw that Godfrey character's tweet and I may have made an audible growl.