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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris we wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy Constitutional Crisis?

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2016 00:03

Its twelve days to go until the end of the HoC 2016 calendar and we can already tell that everyone is wishing it was Christmas already. Poor Theresa though, she doesn’t get to play with toys on the last day of term. Instead she has a grilling on the lack of spending on health and social care spending by a commons select committee.

Hopefully the next couple of weeks will calm down a little though as thoughts turn elsewhere.

The A50 case has come to an end. There is no way of telling which way the judges will go but the decision to appeal may yet haunt the government as it will bring the issue of devolution to a head, whether they win or lose. The ruling is due in mid January.

Win and they are going to have to amend the Devolution Acts and potentially impose Brexit on people with certain national identities who voted against it. This is profoundly undemocratic and a betrayal of the principles of Devolution and the expectations of the will of the people.
Lose and they could face a full blown constitutional crisis, with NI or Scotland or both having a veto over Brexit, and the government effectively unable to trigger a50 in line with our constitutional requirement. Which is again, potentially profoundly undemocratic and against the referendum and the expectations of the will of the people.

It was a scenario that predictable and avoidable at several junctions yet the government under Cameron and May ploughed on regardless. It a scenario that we are now locked into, due to deciding to use the courts rather than just go through parliament.

It could also massively restrict the power of the executive under the Royal Prerogative. Ironically this is something that David Davis has campaigned for, for years so I guess he gets a victory however the decision goes.
So the chances of some kind of crisis with regard to our constitutional makeup and the union seem inevitable in the new year.

The government despite a defeat in Richmond Park continues to lean right and characterise anyone with concerns as unpatriotic or not honourable. This is the last resort of the desperate.

They have however, conceded to Labour that they will publish a report on their Brexit plans before a50 is triggered. In return Labour have promised that they will let a50 be triggered by the end of March. Is this a good thing? It remains to be seen. In some ways this is a blinder for Labour.

They are pro-Brexit but anti-lack of plan in theory. This only works if the plan actually has substance. If there is no substance in the plan and its nothing more than empty words then they face having to go back on a commons vote committing them to a deal with the Conservatives. It could therefore be a trap for them. It marginalises the none English Nationalist voices too. Voices that are important and deserve to be heard. Voices that if they are not listened to, will have consequences.

What will the Sleaford and North Hykenham (yep again) by election bring?

A vote of confidence in the government, a new ever growing and rising fear of UKIP or something else. How will this colour the start to the New Year?

I don’t know. 2016 has apparently been the year of gin as people turn to the drink to cope. Everything is now Brexitty and Red, White and Blue.
But whose’s? Britain’s? The USA’s? Russia’s? Or France’s?

We look forward to, or more to the point we fear what 2017 could bring. A feeling we have not felt to this degree in many years. A General Election with a UKIP breakthrough. The end of peace in NI. A repeat of the age old betrayal of Scotland’s by the English. The Welsh damned to irrelevance and marginalisation. Brexit vettoed and the subsequent political fallout. The end of the NHS. A bonfire of rights. A new Italian PM and possibly new Eurozone economic crisis. Fillon or Le Pen and at last a real victory for the far right in Europe. The chance of Merkel’s Last Stand. Putin’s partnership with Assad and a new genocide we are powerless to stop. Erdogan pulling the plug on the EU door and unleashing a new wave of refugees onto European shores. The horror of ISIS both within the West and within the Middle East. Trump’s neo-fascism and rise of a New World Order. There is something in there for everyone to dread.

Which will it be? Probably something we have not yet foreseen such are these times.

Act 2 of Brexit in Westminstenders land is bound to be just as dramatic and of course, we leave 2016 in true soap fashion on a real cliff hanger.

All the more reason to enjoy the holiday period and break whatever your politics.

OP posts:
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18
Peregrina · 18/12/2016 13:54

Recently, Alan Johnson, Andy Burnham, Len McClusky & others have been finally vocalising the concerns that drove many to vote Leave - how uncontrolled immigration has had a negative effect on the low/no skilled & blue collar workforce.

Except we come back to the issue that many Leave voting areas, e.g. Sunderland, parts of Wales, Cornwall, are areas of low immigration, and high immigration occurred in some Remain areas like London. Something doesn't add up here. It can't be immigrants taking their jobs, or depressing wages if there are hardly any locally.

SwedishEdith · 18/12/2016 14:02

Is someone seriously lumping Farage into the same category as the suffragettes, Martin Luther King and Ghandi? A man who has lied and scaremongered and schmoozed with Banks and Trump.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 18/12/2016 14:06

I did!

Oh, I agree he is the cuntiest cunt of our times, but what HE has achieved is immense. That he got 18 million people to vote Brexit - often against their interests - is a truly remarkable feat to pull off.

Pretending he had nothing to do with it is not the way to go.

Kaija · 18/12/2016 14:08

Birdy, Farage was by no means solely responsible though, just very visible, thanks in no small part to the BBC exposure over the years. Without Arron Banks' millions and shamelessly post-factual campaign strategy, all the long term Tory Brexiters who've been pushing this for decades, Boris Johnson's sudden turnaround, Murdoch, and the relentlessly anti-EU headlines in the Mail and the Express, it wouldn't have happened.

Kaija · 18/12/2016 14:10

If he is the face of Brexit, it's not so much because of what he himself achieved, but more because he has no other political attributes.

Peregrina · 18/12/2016 14:11

There would be no brexit without Farage.

This is not 100% true; there were the 'bastards' i.e. the extreme right wing Europhiles in the Tory party, which ruined Major's time as PM, and subsequently ended up wrecking Cameron's political career. Although in Cameron's case his own arrogance can count as contributory negligence.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 18/12/2016 14:11

I agree he's not solely responsible, however, we can't escape the fact that he has always been the figurehead of this. He was the one they rallied around, he was the one who put pressure on the Conservatives, etc, etc. He raised the issue and he kept it in the public eye.

He did brilliantly - kudos to the lying fucker.

twofingerstoGideon · 18/12/2016 14:12

I saw his response to the increase in hate crimes was to say that he'd had 10 death threats.

I wonder how that compares with the numbers received by Gina Miller and Anna Soubry.

Bolshybookworm · 18/12/2016 14:13

It's a remarkable feat of propaganda, is what it is. Should we really listen to someone who pulled off this coup with lies and threats? Where will that lead us in the future? Does Farage have any actual solutions to the problems in our country or is he a single platform politician?

Also, he only pulled it off because Boris Johnson gave his campaign legitimacy. Therefore we should all be listening to Boris Johnson god help us

Kaija · 18/12/2016 14:13

Not so sure. The fact that he has repeatedly failed to get elected tells its own story. I'm afraid I'm more inclined to go with the "grubby little opportunist hanging on the coat-tail of history" description.

Bolshybookworm · 18/12/2016 14:14

Cross posts, sorry!

SwedishEdith · 18/12/2016 14:17

Also, he only pulled it off because Boris Johnson gave his campaign legitimacy.

I think that's probably true.

Kaija · 18/12/2016 14:18

Agree Boris Johnson's decision to back leave, whatever his motives, was pivotal.

SwedishEdith · 18/12/2016 14:23

Most other Leavers were minor/never heard ofs (Leadsom & Stuart) or huge turn-offs for public already (Fox, IDS and I'd put Farage into that as well). And the older freaks on the back benches.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 18/12/2016 14:24

Mm, but that's short term stuff, Farage and UKIP have been a drip-drip of anti-EU propaganda since 1994! (just looked it up!)

The reason he hasn't won a seat (yet!) could equally said to be a combination of difficulties for other parties under first past the post, and single issue politicians rarely getting elected.

Johnson was pivotal - but no one thinks his support was anything but ambition - when you think of Brexit - who do you think of? It has to be Nigel. Loathe him or really loathe him, he is Brexit.

SwedishEdith · 18/12/2016 14:30

Carswell got elected. Martin Bell got elected after Hamilton (now UKIP, of course). So, it's Farage that's the turn-off.

merrymouse · 18/12/2016 14:30

birdy, I don't know who can talk intelligently about the Leave campaign. All we seem to hear is Farage, IDS and random opinion pieces from Boris.

However, the BBC should be trying to find these people, if they exist. Continually spotlighting Farage just inflames division. There is no way to move forward without discussing the real issues. Farage just talks nonsense.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 18/12/2016 14:31

the BBC should be trying to find these people, if they exist.

There-in lies the problem!

merrymouse · 18/12/2016 14:34

we can't escape the fact that he has always been the figurehead of this.

But the referendum is over. Now we need to be asking politicians with actual responsibility how they plan to sort this out.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 18/12/2016 14:37

Mm, Carswell was a bit of a special case - defection -

Martin Bell was also a special case - he was running against Hamilton who had just been caught up in a sleaze case.

It IS hard for smaller parties to gain traction in our electoral system (after years bemoaning this, I now appreciate why it can be a good thing)

Peregrina · 18/12/2016 14:38

Now we need to be asking politicians with actual responsibility how they plan to sort this out.

Including those prominent Leave politicians too - so that's you Gove, IDS, Redwood. We need to hear some constructive plans from you, properly costed, not pie in the sky rubbish about how the whole world might rush to do trade deals with us and the EU is going to collapse tomorrow. Start putting your money where your mouths were.

Peregrina · 18/12/2016 14:44

Mm, Carswell was a bit of a special case - defection -
Yes, he's a special case, and I wouldn't be surprised if he returned to the Tory fold, if they would have him back. There was Reckless also, who initially retained his seat after going over to UKIP but got turfed out in the GE.

Isn't Farage's contested seat one which is under investigation - with the Tories throwing a bit more money than they should have done at the seat to keep him out?

MangoMoon · 18/12/2016 15:32

Applies to us all, I think - on every side.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

borntobequiet · 18/12/2016 17:00

Perhaps I should have found an emoji for my no platform post indicating "This is something I disapprove of but I would feel happier if I never had to see or listen to the vile creep ever again". However I am not used to using them and I'm not sure there is an appropriate one. At least it generated some discussion.

DarthPlagueis · 18/12/2016 17:09

The oft repeated "impact of uncontrolled immigration on blue collar workers" is a bit false. It hasn't had an impact in most of the areas that there were leave votes because they have realtively little immigration. Wages are not being kept down in Wales/The NE/North West etc by large amounts of immigration. Its something completely different. Immigration ( and the EU) has just been easy to blame.

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