The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

I think this idea of whether or not people are 'self serving' is rubbish tbh. The whole of human society (at least for the last 800 or so years) works on the basis of generalised reciprocity. We do things in the hope/expectation that sooner or later they will benefit us, our immediate family members or the wider community of people we feel we 'know'.

It is obviously to the good when the instrumentalism of someone with power and resources - like GM - coincides with a greater societal benefit, but you can hardly criticise her for being motivated in part by a generalised wish to improve things for herself and those she 'knows'.

The only act of altruism I can remember is that guy in the earliest days of the lottery who used the whole £26 million to fund a mosque in his home town. Even there, maybe there was some generalised expectation of a reciprocal spiritual benefit I'm not equipped to understand!

Agree with scareds post of 5.23

IMO Farage has done untold damage to this country

You see I see Blair as causing un told damage to the country. Then suppressed it all.

Since we are talking about personal motives and I am still having trouble moving on from trousergate I feel the need to post the link to Quentin Letts on Ms U-Turn (NM) even if it is a DM article. He doesn't even get as far as her unwavering support for welfare cuts.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4023506/Ambition-matched-duplicity-lack-talent-QUENTIN-LETTS-Nicky-Morgan-known-Ms-U-Turn-depth.html

Ed Vaizey (Tory Remainer) on DP today suggesting leaving Customs Union and Single Market still within "Soft Brexit" definition which I agree with.

Pulling up the drawbridge and cutting off our nose to spite our face is his definition of "Hard" which I also agree with.

"...Maybe it is not just the PM's trousers that have a hint of 'bitter chocolate' about them..."

"...When you hear Nicky Morgan drearily trotting out the anti-Brexit line, it is hard to conclude that this is anything but a second-rater coughing up received views like a garden bird regurgitating worms..."

Lol

Non Brexit, but Blair instead.

Grabby little shit is after more money:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4024370/Boris-Johnson-knocks-bid-Blair-funding-taxpayer-s-bill-ex-PM-hits-3MILLION-year.html

Lol'd at BoJo's response when turning his request down:

"...In a letter to the former Labour leader, Mr Johnson made a cheeky nod to one of his best-known quotes, writing: 'Sadly I feel the hand of prudence on my shoulder..."

You see I see Blair as causing un told damage to the country. Then suppressed it all

Absolutely.

'Sadly I feel the hand of prudence on my shoulder.*.."

Go Bo Jo
cheeky Git how DARE that man touch a penny of our bloody money

I don't think I've spent that much on anything apart from my wedding dress

Oh but its ok on a wedding dress you wear once is it?If you break down somethings value as to how many times you wear it I am sure TM Bitter Chocolate trews will be yielding more value than the wedding dress and My Wedding dress cost all of £50 - < polishes prudent halo.

Hi Surfer

Oh come on elf

You know she will never be able to wear them again as the papers will be full of it

And you cant wash them

Ian McCaskill has died

"...The British economy is clearly heading for big changes because of Brexit.
However, some economists believe that automating away our addiction to cheap EU labour could not only help us survive this change, but thrive".

Quote from tonight's Newsnight on their piece about the shortage of EU migrant workers for seasonal farm work.

It appears that because the cheap labour is in short supply, the farmers are being forced to look towards automated processes instead.
Which happens to be GREAT news for a uk company which specialises in automated farm machinery, who says their business has never been better...

Hi InfiniteSheldon. Wish I had more time for MN & all my lovely friends in the Brexit Arms. I'm not even up to date on what's happening with Brexit

Mango there was a similar piece on the Scottish news. Farmers were pointing out that actually there is far more than just soft fruit picking - at the moment there is seasonal Christmas tree supply and brussel sprout harvest. Potatoes were in the Autumn. This means that a "seasonal worker" supply may not be sufficient or appropriate.

The farmers interviewed were talking about mechanisation but also about adapting their working t&cs and recruitment more to the local employment market. In Scotland this is already happening so that although arable production is up about 5% on the year, migrant labour employment is down 6%.

I think there is scope to do similar in the tourist and hospitality industries.

Definitely.

Hospitality & tourism was a follow-the-seasons type job when I was young.
I only did it for a couple of years, but there were loads I worked with who had been working like that for their whole lives.
You pack up at the end of summer from your summer hotel/bar/restaurant & move on to the next place for your winter work.

And a bit in The National today profiling a Scottish Care Sector company explaining the benefits to the business of treating employees fairly by paying the Living wage and offering salaried contracts - much like the cost savings the NHS would generate if it managed its workforce better rather than relying on agency and locum contracts.

www.thenational.scot/business/14961951.Living_Wage__Bluebird_Care_agency_reduces_staff_turnover_with_salaried_posts/?ref=eb

I'm looking for the positive spin on this

Project Fear is becoming a reality, cost of living is rising, but there's still absolutely no indication what the mythical 'long term gain' is going to be.

Separation from the EU - the power to control our own affairs, deals and borders. Long term gains

The power to control our own affairs, deals and borders.

Have you any notion of how that will actually happen?

It's just a meaningless sound bite even 6 months on.

Paying to retain access to the single market would be a far cry from that for a start.

The UK already controls its own borders. Always has done.
And our government already controls its own affairs. After all, we have them to thank for austerity, wealth inequality, unsustainable property market, etc.

Sorry to be clear I mean control borders as in set a limit of how many people are allowed to enter the UK in a year - according to need and services, living conditions etc.

Two I think you will find we had all those delights you mentioned under Blairs Long endless Tenure. In fact Labour said back then it was ashamed of the large and increasingly growing gap between poor and rich under its leadership. They admitted they had failed, in particular child poverty.

Bear -'project fear is becoming a reality'! Whoop whoop! Inflation has gone up to just over 1%! Did you actually look at the graph with the piece you linked? It has been so low for so long we have forgotten what 'normal' is.
I noticed you made no comment what so ever about the interesting news on he thread about seasonal workers and automation/changes in working practices to attract local/UK workers as I have been suggesting on many a thread in the past.

corcory regardless of the fact inflation has been low for a long time, it's only gone up now because of Brexit.

Recent surveys have shown Leavers don't want Brexit to cost them personally but this shows that is going to happen.

I made no comment about the seasonal workers because I dont think it was interesting news.

I believe UK citizens have always had the option of doing seasonal work, they generally don't want to, so losing migrants who do want to forces automation- no jobs are gained.