The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Ok elf, could you tell us what you think we bring to the table that the EU couldn't attain elsewhere?

This isn't arguing that we need the EU, but that they don't need us.

She comes across as a very strong woman. After the court case is over, she will slip back into anonymity however. Is Farage EVER going to go away?

There will always be extremists using unacceptable language and actions and its beyond the pale on both sides.

But calling her an 'unplesant self serving arse' is ok?

Glad we cleared that up

Yes self serving arse is fine it's not violent it's not defamatory it's just my opinion. Glad we cleared that up.

How is she self-serving though?

I think thank God someone did challenge the government. Theresa May thinking she could do as she pleased with her RP - just no .

The court case has also been interesting from a general constitutional point of view.

Agree with Infinite re Gina & Nigel.

Both seen as the default figureheads, both receiving appalling abuse.

Self serving arse is fine, as are many descriptors levelled at Farage - nasty, personal, racist, mysoginistic hate speech and threats to both their & their families' safety, however, is not.

Bear, it's not that I want soft Brexit as an end point - more that I think that's the only way to appease the broadest spectrum right now.

• EU happy(ish) because we continue signing up to the 4 tenets for the near future.

• Remainers (mostly) happy(ish) because it's not leaping into the unknown straight away.

• Leavers (mostly) happy(ish) because we are not completely signed in to the EU project anymore & ref result upheld.

As time moves forward we can re-evaluate and test/adjust different strategies to lead to an eventual complete disengagement.
I suspect that free movement will soon be tempered anyway within the EU anyway tbh.

I'd be interested to hear if any other leavers would be happy with mangos wishy washy vision.

I actually agree it's looking like the best possible outcome but, as a Remainer, that's hardly surprising.

If I were a leaver I'd struggle to see the point.

I'd be ok with it, any starting point is better than where we are.

How is Gina Miller self-serving?

Why though infinite?

What is so bad about the EU that's worth scrapping it all and starting from scratch to hopefully attain at best, the agreements we have now with our biggest trading partner?

I've been thinking about the whole Article 50 case and the potential outcomes.

One thing that doesn't seem to have surfaced among all this hot air is why there's a government resistance to just putting the issue to Parliament. It must go through for 'political' reasons even if the Government (and the 'opposition') don't actually want it to go through.

Any MPs who vote against the 'will of the people' can be dealt with in the normal democratic way, so what's the issue with just letting them get on with it and passing a Bill through Parliament?

I think I know the answer, and I've been thinking it since June, what do you people think though?

I've no idea Tucker.
After the initial High Court ruling I didn't understand why the govt didn't just put through a one line thing.
I've really no idea why they appealed tbh.

Bear I've answered that questioned repeatedly I've told you why I think that again and again you've replied again and again I cannot give you an answer that you will accept or that will make you feel better. Kaj I'm ignoring you it's patently obvious why GM is self serving.

Tucker

Because they know that any in depth look at leaving the EU will show that it's a mistake on many levels? Hence Mrs May's assertion that Brexit Means Brexit and they WILL make a success of it, through gritted teeth.

Not sure if Gina Miller is self serving or not. Moot point IMO. A large number of high profile Leavers are too.

Tucker If I understand your question, I always thought May was trying to avoid putting MPs in a position where they were bound to vote the other way to a proportion of their constituents and to limit the damage to individual MPs. Not that I agree with this tactic.

"Kaj I'm ignoring you it's patently obvious why GM is self serving."

??

It really isn't.

Personally, though no fan of TM or the Cons in general, I think everything that's happening is within the spectrum of what's intended to happen.

The liberal metropolitan London-centric elite don't want Brexit but they don't want to be seen to be thwarting it.

I think the Baldrick Protcol and the Sir Humphry Arrangement are in play.

I know sod all though - I'm not part of any 'elite'.

I think you're probably not too far off the mark Tucker.

You could feel the horror and disbelief radiating from a lot of politicians in the immediate aftermath of the ref.

They were so badly out of touch with over half of the voters & they seemed to have genuinely not seen it coming.

(Fwiw, with the elite thing - I said on the 'things in common' thread that I'd been guilty of using that particular stereotype in the past. My opinion re 'elites' now is more the political elite, iyswim?)

At first I thought the same re. May having some plan to ignore the referendum result but I don't at all any more. I think she is stubborn and prides herself on "pushing the agenda through" (not that that's going too well for her at the moment).

I don't think she is super bright either and I wish she wasn't PM because so far she has been rubbish IMO. Added to which, when you look at some of her aggressive anti immigration moves while Home Secretary, her lukewarm campaigning for remain during the referendum, and the shocking overtones of the Tory conference ("if you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere" amongst other things), I think she is a leaver at heart.

I am glad you said that about the so called "London centric metropolitan elite" mango because I think that notion has been used to discredit remainers and is a nonsense in terms of the voting pattern. People from all socio-economic backgrounds voted for both leave and remain. Certainly some very well off people voted for leave and some very modestly off (including myself though I do live in London sorry ) for remain.

I agree that some politicians were out of touch with the feeling on the ground (and if they hadn't been, there might not have been a referendum at all as there wouldn't have been the same problems of neglect of and lack of investment in some de-industrialised areas of the country). However both remain and leave representatives are members of an elite. The idea that someone like Farage is a man of the people is laughable IMO. Or Jacob Rees-Mogg with his astronomical fortune. Or any other high profile leaver.

Men of the people:

People from all over the country voted for remain. While many people voted for leave, almost as many voted for remain. Many are not members of any elite! The media (being the sheep that they are - especially the BBC ) really ran with the whole elite thing, and suddenly it seemed that the views of remainers did not have to be taken into acount at all since we are apparently all rich and out of touch. Certainly May has ignored and sneered (notably at her conference) at remainers.

(Will stop posting now).

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