The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Bearbehind

Life is all about change & adapting to new situations - nothing stays the same fierever, especially politically! people's opinions, needs, wants, desires, all change over time and we just have to adapt. Are things the same as they were 100 years ago? ( which historically is a drop in the ocean )
There is never a master plan for the future, our leaders & politicians just have to work with what's in front of them at the time.
Stop panicking - the UK will still be here in 100 years time.

YES, I do Bear! .

My tree still looks lovely and the house looks so cosy, and gorgeous I have them up still. I only take them down when I feel like it, some years Thats been soon after 1st Jan, but I have been known to have them up till Feb, but that was when DC were small.

After this episode of snow I will probably think about next weekend to take them down, half way through Jan and all its misery.

Have been watching the news fallout of Trump's alleged golden shower shenanigans - a poster on the Westminster thread pointed out that the fact it's all out there now means that (even if true) it's no longer a blackmail lever.
I agree - and lest we forget that our own former PM had a liaison with a dead 🐷.

I like your Santa smileys Elf and your relentless cheerfulness

Yes of course Surfer.

The EU is also very much winging it. But when they wing it - its with the added drag of 27 countries.

There was no EU plan to deal with the mass migration crisis last year was there. There was no great plan to deal with Greece ( still hugely suffering under strain of migration crisis), there is no external border still, no cohesion, weak intelligence, poor communication. I would have had far more faith in the EU if before FOM was allowed - all of this was set up, planned for. But it wasn't, its been very much a "throw everyone under the bus in 100 years it will sort itself out".

I look at that chaos and I feel the EU wont change, UK is far easier to adapt on its own. Ironic really given your specific gripes Bear.

For Bear .......

🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄
🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻
🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁🎁

Once upon a time I did study Economics, though only at degree Foundation Level. I thought it must be nice to be an Economist as it was all about predicting the future, accuracy being rare.

I respect Mark Carney as he appears to be the only guy (with influence) who had a plan for both scenarios.

At the time of the Referendum I expected that if we voted to leave it would mean leaving the EU. Period. And everything associated.

Assurances were made we would be able to trade across the world, unencumbered.

Will leaving the EU work? Yes, because as I hinted in an earlier post capitalists make sure any situation works – for them.

Because Politicians never have actual plans. They have sound bites, speeches and policy documents, not plans, well nothing that a half decent project manager would describe as a plan.

What concerns me? Thatcherism, neo Thatcherism (Tony Blair et al) leading to the destruction of housing availability not being reflective of wages, the destruction of the public sector in particular the NHS and that voters continue to vote in such policies.

What irritates me? Any sentence that a) lumps all Remainers together b) using the term 'Remoaners', and c) assumptions that, being older, I voted Leave and our kids, grandkids voted Remain – reality was the opposite. And d) being told, after receiving a post - all are welcome, this thread is for Leavers.

Lol- if there's one thing that's convinced me I'm going to struggle to ever find common ground with some Leavers it's the Christmas tree thing. I find that beyond bizarre!

Well you may feel my decorations still being up are a barrier between us, but I am sure you can and do find common ground with other Leavers. My decs do look beautiful though you may change your mind if you saw them.

Petronius16
This thread is for everybody - I hope anyone who posts on here feels welcome. The only thing I'd say is this isn't a thread for demanding answers & interrogation.
It's aim, is to bring together both remainers & leavers in a neutral environment for gentle chat and jovial discussion ( although remainers do have to put up with pictures of IDS & Jacob Rees-Mogg.
But I'm sure you'd agree, that's a small price to pay for wonderful company.

I expect leaving the EU will work - eventually - in the same way as breaking up the Soviet Union worked - sort of. It will work for some people - the ones 'in the know' just as things fall apart, the ones who don't rely on public services, the ones with a great deal of resources to buy up companies and properties as their price falls, the ones with lots of social capital etc.

I expect that eventually it will work particularly well for Tazer manufacturers. As surfer says, nothing stays the same forever, and 100 years is a drop in the ocean. Indeed, the period of the post-war welfare state is/was the smallest of small drops - and against the grain of normal British politics.

Really interesting article on actual performance of the UK economy since Brexit and looking forward to rainbows and unicorns in the Independent of all places.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/economic-consensus-brexit-succeeding-ashoka-mody-imf-a7509711.html

Arf Figment, are you asserting you think breaking up the commie block was a bad idea!

It will work for some people - the ones 'in the know' just as things fall apart, the ones who don't rely on public services Arf at this too!

Figment, are you asserting you think breaking up the commie block was a bad idea!

No - I am just drawing an analogy and pointing out what kind of interests benefited from the unorganised break up of the Soviet Union. Have you read Garry Kasparov's 'Winter is Coming'? I picked this up last year. Very interesting, if a bit shouty. I'm sure other perspectives are available!

What does arf mean?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/12/amber-rudds-conservative-party-speech-treated-hate-incident/

Bonkers

and in the Guardian too

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/12/amber-rudd-speech-on-foreign-workers-recorded-as-hate-incident

Wrong, the professor (from Oxford University, no less) was on Daily Politics today.

Complete arsehole.

Had no facts, or specific example to cite to back up his accusation of 'hate crime' - he hadn't heard the speech either, he'd 'read about it, then read a transcript of it' - still couldn't cite any specific part which constituted a hate crime/hate speech.

The police couldn't find evidence of a hate crime being committed either, but because a hate crime was reported it has to be recorded as an 'incident'.

Basically, he was offended, but not quite sure specifically why he was offended, and can't find anything in the text of the speech to back up his offence - but thought he should report his offence to the police nonetheless....

"Recorded as a Hate incident."

It is a thought denouncement system worthy of the Chinese communists!

Semi : yep....and that is the sort of thing tvat explained the 'huge surge in hate crime after brexit' stats.
interestingly the comments made by other oxford don - the brexit benefits one - have been dismissed out of hand and swept aside on the other thread...like anything positive.

surfer it's the pictures I stay for! Sent the Cameron ones to all sorts of people.

Each Tuesday I go with a friend when he's walking his dog. He's a Leaver (and votes Tory), I find it easy to be friends with people who vote differently to me.

Put the kettle on, please.

well I am married to a remainer, we dont go on about it much at home, occasionally he has a bitter out burst " fucking brexit shite" and very rarely I do....but otherwise nothing.

But thinking about it - he is more of a shallow - remainer in that he doesn't necessarily believe in the EU project but doesn't want short term economic pain pain.

interestingly the comments made by other oxford don - the brexit benefits one - have been dismissed out of hand and swept aside on the other thread...like anything positive.

This is typical, we are in the midst of a current huge change within this country bought about because the alternative outcome and views were brushed under the carpet and ignored and yet, it is still going on, we don't agree therefore we will ignore it because it doesn't fit our point of view (which of course is the right one ). Still they remain so close minded, do some people ever learn .

The trouble is that the "Brexit benefits" don, Alastair Buchan (whose new job it is indeed to seek out the benefits of Brexit for Oxford) wasn't quite as optimistic as that rather selective Telegraph article would suggest. More here:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/11/university-leaders-academics-hard-brexit-disaster-germany?client=safari

interestingly the comments made by other oxford don - the brexit benefits one - have been dismissed out of hand and swept aside on the other thread...like anything positive.

time4 - re your comment on this... why not read what he had to say, rather than the Telegraph spin, otherwise you come over as the epitome of biased? Ironic, as that's what you're accusing remainers of.