The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Oh that's good Kaija because sometimes it seems as if remain posters come onto this thread in a self punishing way as if they don't enjoy it.

" I have been a naughty remainer today I shall go into the Brexit Arms as my Hair Shirt and get myself flayed" sort of thing. But thats great some remainers find it insightful, I must admit, great links and comments are being posted all over.

Strange interpretation. No, it's just interesting to see what people are thinking and why.

I think if the ref went the other way I don't think I could bring myself to go into a "happy why we are staying thread", you do very well. It would make me feel too miserable. I understand why people want to stay in the EU and all the positives and negatives. Its everywhere isn't it - the for and against arguments, but I think specifically going onto a thread where people were really happy about staying, I don't know, I would only do it if I felt I wanted to punish myself or lash out at them.
Anyway you do - not YOU specifically but the remainers do very well on here, if that's why you are here - to get the links etc.

Elf, it is hard to imagine a thread like that existing, as it would have just been business as usual. This really isn't about winning or losing. It's about where we go from here, and the destination is still as unclear as it was in 24th June.

I've just messaged claig asking if she's ok.
Hopefully I'll get a reply.

Ooooh keep me posted Surfer - I was thinking about contacting MNHQ about that whole debacle (still might).

Has she completely disappeared??
Shitty pack mentality as per - all v proud that they'd 'taken her down' etc.

I hope claig returns.

Excellent piece by Aditya Chakrabortty in the Guardian arguing that it is no longer meaningful to talk about "the economy" as if we all live in the same economy. Very interesting graph.

None of this stacks up, for exactly the reason identified by that geordie heckler. The economic crisis and the crisis in economics aren’t about technicalities. They are about whose economy, whose recovery and whose GDP the social scientists and journalists are discussing. Nearly a decade after the crash, and nearly four decades into the devastation of Britain’s industrial towns and cities, the UK has become so unequal that it can no longer be talked about as one unitary economy

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/10/blunt-heckler-economists-failing-us-booming-britain-gdp-london#comments

We all understand the complexity of the undertaking after all.

Unfortunately, there is not much evidence of this from the Leavers on this thread. Instead, there is an absolute reluctance to discuss or acknowledge any of the complexities, as borne out by surfer's 'who cares?' comment.

Thanks wrong.
The Geordie heckler he mentions are replicated all over the country - trying fruitlessly to articulate what he has done there, but getting repeatedly shouted down by those who take comfort in manipulated stats & reports rather than real life experiences.

Especially loved this line:
while economists go on the BBC to paw at one another like tentatively precoital pandas.

Instead, there is an absolute reluctance to discuss or acknowledge any of the complexities

I'm not here to discuss 'complexities' with people who just want to tear apart anything I say. A hardcore minority of remainers are still very angry & bitter, and 7 months on, still feel the need to seek our 'leavers' on the internet & 'demand' answers?
And it is ( thankfully) a tiny minority - most people are just getting on with their lives now, I really think remainers who can't accept the referendum & move on would benefit from some professional help.

I don't feel the need to 'seek out Leavers on the internet and demand answers'

I would like to discuss how Leavers see things playing out and had rather hoped that after 7 months we might have moved on from the 'we won, you lost' mentality but sadly that's too much to ask on this thread.

It's clear that the majority of Leavers who do frequent this thread are in surfers 'who cares' camp and genuinely think the only decision that needed to be made was the one on the ballot paper and that the rest would magically resolve itself.

the only decision that needed to be made was the one on the ballot paper and that the rest would magically resolve itself

Things won't be resolved by magic ( sadly) - but things will be resolved & life will go on

You know the only time I talk about the referendum is on here. I never have these conversations with anyone in RL. People have moved on.
Yes it's still a big thing in the history of the UK, but devoting so much time & energy to every twist & turn ( & they'll be 1000's of them over the next few years ) has become an unhealthy obsession for a few.

Honestly - move on & enjoy life.

At the time of the Richmond by-election and the Supreme Court hearings on A50 (December) most of the media and political talk was still dominated by discussion of the possibility of frustrating the Referendum result. It is really only since the New Year that the public discourse has changed. Most MPs of all parties are now starting to discuss migration controls and consider the difference between Europe and the EU and access versus membership. At last there is some critical analysis of the economic modelling. It is only within this new listening environment that I think it will be possible to move to constructive discussion.

(I still think it is unfair to blame the economic modellers when the parameters for the modelling were confined by political definition and the outcomes were there for interpretation. The regional analysis predates the referendum. The GDP per head figures pre-date the referendum. The obvious outcome of a Government austerity policy neutralised by monetary policy was always to favour the haves over the have nots.)

Snapchat have announced they are basing their non-US operations in UK now.

Awaiting inevitable negative spin....

Bear - I certainly don't think Surfer or anyone else on these threads is in a 'who cares camp' otherwise why would they bother to continue to post on these threads.
To be honest though I, and I am sure others got pig sick of your constant interrogation. No matter what we said it was still never good enough. Obviously we were never able to give set figures or show previous instances where this kind of thing has happened before so you were never going to get the definitive answer you always seem to want.

corcory, RTFT surfer has said herself 'who cares'

I don't expect definitive answers, just something a little more than rainbows and unicorns

Snapchat has had an office in Soho for a while - looks like expansion in the UK is ahead of a public offering:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-02/snapchat-maker-expands-in-london-ahead-of-public-offering

Bearbehind
My 'who cares' comment was in response to a certain poster saying some report or other didn't stand up to 'scrutiny' -

I didn't care - why should I care that a poster on MN isn't orgasmically happy over everything Brexit?

I agree Informal, its the same as saying the Apple office in Battersea was a coup for Brexit, its just a relocation with a few more jobs, the Google one was similar too, that has been planned and they've been developing the Kings Cross location for ages.

I think some of the problems with the leave/remain divide come across here because while people are happy to link to link to everything that backs a certain POV whilst dismissing any points that query that.

TBF it was the same on Claig threads, she wouldn't discuss any other point of view and got rather snarky when it was challenged, although I hope she is just taking a break ( the politics threads are dull now), it may explain her absence.

If we are going to discuss things properly both sides have to be open minded and accept criticism. If you're a remainer, you're going to have to admit that a lot of the predictions of an immediate recession haven't come true, but if you're a leaver you're going to have to admit that it isn't all a bed of roses, neither is it likely to be, and there is still significant risk and that a lot of the promises were bunkum.

The time for meeting in the middle is nigh..

The only points I take issue with are the ones on the thread regarding EU immigrants, I really don't like some of the sentiments expressed there towards them.

I don't expect definitive answers, just something a little more than rainbows and unicorns

^^ but why do you expect this from people on this thread? why are you looking for more right here, this is what puzzles me, this little group is not the uk representatives association of brexit .....

It seems to me like some posters on here want to line all leavers up in a firing line but instead of guns the same lines are fed out to them ad nasusem in a strange torture technique. Its working though, some of us do feel sick

If we are going to discuss things properly both sides have to be open minded and accept criticism

Umm I am not sure the Brexit arms though is the place to do this which is why some of us wanting a quiet drink and a chat get a little narked off with this exact attitude.

Like trying to get someone to play pool when they want to play tennis.

Nah I'd prefer pool to tennis, with a pack of scratchings and a pint (ladylike me), game of killer anyone?

This is the EU referendum section.

If you don't want to talk about Brexit then there's a whole section on MN for people to 'chat', it's even called 'Chat' to help you find it