The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Claig is indeed an incomparable poster, in terms of sheer volume of posts, rhetoric and consistency of message. But the assessment below is about right:

"For anyone missing Claig's posts then I'm sure I can have a good go at replicating them using a limited number of words (Oxbridge, spin, PPE, crying, Blair, Stump for Trump, people, revolution, elites etc) and a random phrase generator?"

Yes Claig did indeed make attacks on individual posters. It's disappointing that the thread was deleted however. Much better to keep it all in the open.

None of Claig's phrases were random. Thinking that they were is to miss the point spectacularly.

Ok

What's happened to claig?
I must admit I never posted on her Trump threads but I absolutely love her.

The problem being it's Leavers who set fire to the building in the first place, thus causing the disaster

If there was any fire one could argue the fire was the EU and Leavers have quelled it. The EU is stoking flames of extreme left/right views at the moment, which is polarizing millions of people.

This is not North Korea we do not have to "tow the party line" and all think/feel the same things

Ironic comment from poster I assume is a Remainer and wants 27 countries and more all towing the EU party line

I agree however and one size never ever fits all, and doesn't have too. However once a decision has been made, whilst you don't suddenly have to agree to it, if you dont move with the times you will get left behind and that energy on fighting it is wasted when it could be used to help forge a better future.

Of course I don't mean you personally there Grimes I mean the remainers in general who don't accept the result but also don't want to move forward.

Any update on all those positives to come elf?

I think you or another poster has mis read my post somewhere? I have never said - " wait a moment until I can get the long endless list of postives with which to furnish you with" Its not up to me, some random on the internet to do donkey work - google - research to give you positives, its up to you to take responsibility for it. But I dont feel some posters on here are ready to see any positives laid before them yet. Hopefully in time they will come round.

The EU army is not a scare story at all. I do not know how you can claim this Darth and then feel qualified to "but to give a bit of challenge to an utterly fallacious set of arguments" . The EU army plan is a very real mooted idea in the EU. Yes the UK can block it now, but the EU has a sly way of "throwing plans out there and if no one notices forges ahead with them", the circumstances NOW may mean we block it but times and people change.
Over history many ideas have become reality! To present it as a never ever going to happen thing is totally incorrect.

arf just seen this "Maybe not an officially signed off 'EU Army', which is the dream of some within the EU - but it's already being brought in by stealth"

Simon Jenkins damning verdict on the recent performance of economists. I disagree with him that all economists are as bad as each other though and I have some sympathy with the view that journalists and politicians overemphasise the science and underemphasise the art.

ttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/06/economists-economic-policy-brexit-crash-failure?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=207338&subid=18573163&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/06/economists-economic-policy-brexit-crash-failure?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=207338&subid=18573163&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

full link

Thank you as always comments are very informative too

I think Simon Jenkins' assessment is quite wrong. Not least because the UK is still operating within the EU, and its trading arrangements still apply. Most forecasts were based on the assumption that Article 50 would be triggered immediately, so this looks more like a question of timing than anything else.

A rather different assessment here:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e8f1047c-d429-11e6-9341-7393bb2e1b51?client=safari

Mago, the EU army isn't being brought it by "stealth" there is an ongoing reorganisation of the defence systems the EU already has.

On Claig, she made attacks on other posters as well as made derogatory remarks about public figures with disabilities.

I certainly didn't report it because I think its good to have those things up there as part of public record.

I also agree that the posts were not informative, more propaganda.

The whole "peoples revolution" was incorrect, as were the things she posted regarding political correctness. There were massive inconsistencies in her arguments. Much of them massively taken from alt-right POV.

If you are going to make any accusations of echo chambers it was those threads, at the end of the last thread the alt-right got nasty because their arguments were challenged effectively.

Darth - that is your interpretation. With regard to making derogatory remarks regarding people's disabilities that needs to be put into context, she made a comment about Ed Millibands lisp, which while not nice would have been a weekly occurrence on spitting image if it was still around - don't make her out to be something she is not (i.e. Disablist).

These boards are full of echo chambers and it would not be for you to judge (or anyone else for that matter) what is propaganda and what is an alternative view point. We are all adults and can make our own minds up.

It is my interpretation, but its perfectly legitimate to state that. She made derogatory remarks regarding David Blunkett too.

Another poster made the echo chamber remark, which I countered, I note that you didn't take issue there, which further suggests I'm correct.

It is true though, all the chuntering about the "people's revolutions" of Brexit and Trump were very off the mark, as were many other of her opinions. I'm sure you don't want me to go into explaining why again.

I would say that identifying something as propaganda isn't to do with a point of view, it's to do with the nature of the writing and the kind of rhetorical devices used. It is a different way of using language, in the same way that, say, a user review of a product is very different from an advertisement for a product. There is of course no law against using language in this way on an online forum, but equally there is nothing wrong with drawing attention to it.

time4 constant repetition of a constant mantra (people's revolution, dismantling the establishment, scaring the elites, Oxbridge PPE spin etc) is a classic propaganda technique. You may agree with the view stated but it doesn't mean it isn't propaganda.

Yes, repetition is the big one.

Or the fact that when critiqued the goal posts change so that the same mantra can be repeated.

Yes. Floating signifiers and glittering generalities.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_signifier

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glittering_generality

'her posts were of a genuine value and were actually thought-provoking rather than merely reflective of the echo chamber that we hear all too often on a daily basis.'

Absolutely hilarious.

However once a decision has been made, whilst you don't suddenly have to agree to it, if you dont move with the times you will get left behind and that energy on fighting it is wasted when it could be used to help forge a better future.

When the Tories came to power in 2010 political opponents didn't simply say "oh we'd better support austerity now for the good of the nation." Instead they campaigned against it and warned of the consequences of such policy (that have now been proven correct). By the same token millions believe Brexit will have dire consequences for the country and will not simply roll over and watch post Brexit policy damage their lives and the lives of their children. That is their belief and their democratic right.

Mago, the EU army isn't being brought it by "stealth" there is an ongoing reorganisation of the defence systems the EU already has.

Darth - I can assure you it is.
There has been an overwhelming increase in jointery since the Blair govt (when he presided over massive reductions in numbers & resources); this was exacerbated during Cameron's time - especially as a result of the 2010 SDSR.

It has been happening for a while now - much further than just a 'pooling of resources & expertise'.
It would have been proposed & approved in stages - the 'need' for a joint HQ, then the 'obviously sensible' option for joint trg & so it continues.

The EU defence force is a dream of the EU project & is something that was more likely to happen than not.

I am aware of propaganda techniques - but I think you are being unfair. Claig started her own thread/s all about Trump (she didn't hijack anyone else's) with her views/opinions/links for anyone interested. At no point was anyone forced to click on those links if they weren't interested and everyone has the option to hide a thread. What subsequently happened was it was derailed and there was a full on goading/ambush from a very few ardent posters with a differing opinion.

And Bunny has just summed up in two words how other opinions are meaningless/laughable and of no significance if they differ. How superior.
Yukkk!!

I'm off now to do something much more constructive with my time.

there was a full on goading/ambush from a very few ardent posters with a differing opinion.

Business as usual for those posters time4.

Yes, ghost, exactly this. Democracy didn't end in June.