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Brexit

The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good flounce, & a bit of trickery.

943 replies

surferjet · 19/11/2016 18:07

Pull up a chair & relax......

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winterisnigh · 07/12/2016 08:58

it actually that it is only for people to back slap each other about how fantastic leaving the EU will be without having a fucking clue how it will work in practice

Thanks Bear its this way of addressing people - repeatedly that I am referring too. Smile The bitterness is oozing from every word.

Kaija, no it was the poster who stalked me from thread to thread telling all and sundry I was WW when I am not, even after MN HQ on MY behest, said I was not WW.

Err no. I'm not quoting from an article Ok Figment its just astonishing thats all as I read a little piece I cant link too Its behind a pay wall...but it had very similar sentences in. You cant see them here.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/their-post-truth-comfort-blanket-is-all-the-liberals-have-left-cx7cpzgnz

I also read this - this am which was interesting. I know many posters on here will reject it immediately and not read it because its the Mail Grin

"that as the media have peeled away the anonymity that cloaked the Supreme Court judges to reveal a number who have strong associations with EU institutions",

"The faux anger of some politicians and lawyers about the personal interests of the judges being made public, as though they were omnipotent, is close to risible. After all, it's not as though this present legal structure is a centuries-old edifice that has stood the test of time"

"It is worth reminding ourselves that the Supreme Court was created in June 2003 — when I was Tory leader — right in the middle of a botched Cabinet reshuffle by Tony Blair".

"With little thought for the constitutional proprieties, and partly because he wanted to get rid of his troublesome Lord Chancellor Derry Irvine — who opposed the creation of a Supreme Court — he sought to get rid of the post of Lord Chancellor and move the Law Lords out of Parliament to create a Supreme Court that was both legally and physically separate from Westminster"
"In one stroke of his all-too-regal pen, Tony Blair dispensed with centuries of constitutional balance. No thought, it seems, was given to the constitutional arrangement that had prevailed until then, that by having the nation's supreme appeal court actually within Parliament, the supremacy of Parliament was assured.

"Of all the many ill-considered arrangements made by the Blair government, this had to be among the least considered and most chaotic. Instead of a careful debate about the supremacy of Parliament and the role of the judiciary, or even how that delicate relationship should be settled, Blair rushed the proposal through to resolve his own political difficulties"
"When MPs attacked him, saying what he had done was without thought and amounted to constitutional vandalism, he flippantly replied that he believed it was time to get rid of the men in tights. In response, one Tory MP suggested that instead of tearing up the constitution, Mr Blair could try giving the judges some trousers.

The result is that we now have a Supreme Court, and after a number of major adjustments, we are having to learn to live with the notion of a separation of powers and, yes, location"

And so on and so on and so on.

"But if the Supreme Court rules against the Government, and then Article 50 is halted, or mired in endless amendments, as Nick Clegg and his allies would like, then the judges will have set Parliament against the people and brought the constitution to a point of crisis."

"There was a good reason why, when England's Bill of Rights was crafted in 1689, article nine made plain that proceedings in Parliament must not be overruled in any court or place outside Parliament. It was to stop such an event as this — a democratic referendum being derailed — coming to pass"

In the U.S., such appointees undergo gruelling hearings in the Senate which pore over every aspect of their legal opinions and personal lives Since our Supreme Court is modelled on that of America (albeit with some differences), I believe it's time for us to introduce a process of Parliamentary hearings to examine candidates for the Supreme Court when a vacancy has to be filled

Kaija · 07/12/2016 08:59

That's the trouble with Brextremists: no sense of humour. Except for this one.

The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good  flounce, & a bit of trickery.
Figmentofmyimagination · 07/12/2016 09:02

winter Perhaps it's just a commonly held view! It's not exactly a revolutionary thought.

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:02

No winter, it was definitely WinchesterWoman who lost it and kept calling someone a fucking twat.

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:05

It would be a little problematic to say the least if the Supreme Court consisted of judges who had no expertise in EU law.

squoosh · 07/12/2016 09:08

But of course you would Mango.

Figmentofmyimagination · 07/12/2016 09:10

winter I think you should be more concerned about the fact that in michael gove, followed by Liz truss, we have the first ever non legally qualified (and highly political) appointments to lord chancellor.

I

time4chocolate · 07/12/2016 09:12

Kaija - I admire your selective memory Hmm

Figmentofmyimagination · 07/12/2016 09:12

Perhaps winter you should be looking at eg Russia for your model, if you're so unenthusiastic about the importance of an independent judiciary.

squoosh · 07/12/2016 09:12

But I'm assuming the judges in question have slightly more important issues to occupy their thoughts than to spend time fretting about whether someone had described them as 'gentle pussycats' and all the rest of it.

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:12

Anyway, Brextremist Jacob Rees Mogg has outlined what those sunny uplands are going to look like for our children and grandchildren. I expect he's looking forward to being able to send small boys up the chimneys of his country pile just like the good old days

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html%3Famp

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:13

Time, it was quite an event. Who could forget?

Bearbehind · 07/12/2016 09:25

winter it is you that keeps prodding with your shitty stick to get a reaction and bringing this up. I knew you were referring to me as you clearly hold a grudge

For the record- I did not follow you 'from thread to thread' we were both posting on here and the Westmisibsters thread- that's 2 threads not the whole Internet.

You might not like my, or others tone, but it is borne of frustration with the fact that, 6 months on, many people are still making comments like 'we should just forget about A50 and just leave anyway'

The fact that there are people who even think is an option, let alone post it, drives me to distraction.

We should be building a consensus on what people actually want our departure to look like but other than 'leaving the EU' and 'ending freedom of movement' too many Leavers are shrugging their shoulders about the rest of the details- paying to stay in the Single Market being one of hem.

What will the point of leaving be if we continue to pay into the EU and have to abide by their rules in order to trade?

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:26

Ah, I thought it was doorbellgate.

InformalRoman · 07/12/2016 09:37

I know many posters on here will reject it immediately and not read it because its the Mail

Even worse than being in the Mail - it's written by Iain Duncan Smith Grin

InformalRoman · 07/12/2016 09:43

Oooh, the Secret Barrister has gone all ranty at IDS on Twitter.

Kaija · 07/12/2016 09:45

I would love to read a reasonably well informed article by IDS in the Mail. Sadly this a long way from that.

winterisnigh · 07/12/2016 10:22

No you did Bear you did follow me, you declared to all I was WW and tangled me into her history and you would not let it drop.

winter it is you that keeps prodding with your shitty stick to get a reaction and bringing this up. I knew you were referring to me as you clearly hold a grudge ah again the lovely language. Smile

No apology by the way Bear Confused for your behaviour.

Bear if our tone on this thread sends you in stratospheric personal frenzy as it clearly does, I don't understand why you keep coming back? Muses : Is it sort of self flagellation?

Maybe in your head your posting style is diplomatic and genial, but its coming across as goady and aggressive. But as you say your clearly distracted by all this so perhaps you don't genuinely realise how your writing. Smile or why you keep returning to a thread that is upsetting you. Plenty of threads have touched something in me on MN - and I try to stay off them. Its a simple choice. But as a forum for all users it would be nice if one thread was not derailed for MNetters who are pleased with Brexit.

Perhaps winter you should be looking at eg Russia for your model, if you're so unenthusiastic about the importance of an independent judiciary

Re read my posts and I cant see anywhere were I state I am personally un enthusiastic about independent judiciary. I have quoted from an article by IDS who is simply giving more perspective and background on the supreme court and how it came about from the Stroke of King Blairs pen Grin

I found it interesting to learn how people in such positions in the US are scrutinized.

Bearbehind · 07/12/2016 10:33

No you did Bear you did follow me, you declared to all I was WW and tangled me into her history and you would not let it drop.

And who's dragging it up and not letting it drop now Hmm

You'll have a long wait for an apology from me so don't hold your breath.

As for my style being goady and aggressive, you might want to read some of your own posts and add patronising to the list too.

What is the point of a thread for people just to be 'pleased with Brexit'?

I'll ask again, what is the point in 'leaving the EU' only to continuing paying them and abiding by their rules?

I realise it's not a foregone conclusion that that will happen but Leavers should be outraged this is even being considered yet none seem bothered.

surferjet · 07/12/2016 10:37

This thread wasn't set up for remainers to come on here and take the piss ( Has the 'Great' been put back into Great Britain yet ) Hmm

If you want to argue go and follow Katie Hopkins on Twitter, as one of you said, at least she'll give you a better argument ( not that she'd take any notice of you but you can try ) this thread is supposed to be friendly, so really, if you just want yet another place to unleash your anger and frustration - find somewhere else, because you really have become beyond boring.

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Bearbehind · 07/12/2016 10:42

surfer you've been rude and 'unleashing your anger and frustration' here calling Remainers all sorts lately so you can't really claim this to be a friendly place- as I've said before, your definition of 'friendly' simply means they agree with you.

Fawful · 07/12/2016 10:45

Leavers should be outraged this is even being considered
Not necessarily Bear. A lot of leavers say they don't mind immigration but just want no part in a European project because 'no one asked them if they wanted closer union' and they really really want to be a 'nation-state' (as if creating isolated Nation States was the natural way of the world and what God had in mind when he left people to arrange their affairs on this planet).
If all they want is to be a Nation State (and to be honest I think that is where Leavers' argument lies) then they'll be fine with anything as long as they leave the 'collapsing' EU.

TheMagicFarawaySleep · 07/12/2016 10:47

I said earlier in the thread that it was awful to see people attacking each other and that surely we're better than that. Seems we're not.

I genuinely do not understand the absolute hatred which is coming across on this thread.

I have supported the result of the referendum and our need to leave now, even though I personally voted remain. But it makes it is so much harder to support a democratic decision you disagree with, when those who made the decision are verbally hostile. It doesn't win people to your cause.

But then it is hard to avoid that when the instigator of the thread is setting the tone by calling people names, and making really derogatory comments to people.

Surfer when you responded to my post the other day I thought you were nice. Good to know what you actually think of people like me! I am shocked at your vitriol.

surferjet · 07/12/2016 10:49

Actually you're right Bearbehind - some of my posts aren't great that's true, & I do only like people who agree with me ( isn't that normal? )

Perhaps this thread was a bit naive, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. Smile

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InfiniteSheldon · 07/12/2016 11:05

Once again a thread being dominated by Bear and her appalling bullying