The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good flounce, & a bit of trickery.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair & relax......

Thanks Mango, love the moose eared one. Although the Tommy Cooper impression one is good too. 'Just like that'.

Today I've been thinking about the Boris and Gove tussle. I wonder if Gove wasn't really backstabbing but realised Boris wasn't genuine and was a plant in the Leave campaign? There's something just odd about the role Boris has played and is playing. He didn't want PM as he didn't want to take us out?

Been away visiting family - happy weekend all round, shame they have to work.

Gove is saying we must stop being beastly to Faridge. OK.

News item today about leaving the EU doesn't mean we should be leaving the EEA. Does that make sense? I'm assuming Hard Leavers won't like that.

Rufus never did vote for Tony Blair, far too right wing for me.

I thought I'd just venture in for a quick half at lunch time whilst it's quiet.

Can I just say TheHoneyBadger has summed up so much that I feel about the current political situation so pithily I want to quote the lot, but particularly

currently still dealing with the cognitive dissonance of what i thought the left and liberals stood for as opposed to the reality i'm seeing

and

i sort of think it's not that the whole world is falling to pieces suddenly as the remainers would have it but that our lazy, deluded beliefs and tribalism etc are being challenged to fuck. some people would rather chant that the earth is flat than have their identity/beliefs/perceptions wobbled

More sense and insight than pages and pages I've read in the press. Speaking of which, can I have a quick rant about the latest from the lovely Polly Toynbee in the Guardian about staying in the EEA, the story Petronius mentions re the legal challenge on this.

The usual dreadful stuff from PT (and I wish she would start reading her words back to herself when she is slagging leavers of and wonder how much applies to herself). She seems to be saying - let's just stay in the EU in everyway but name (and any democratic representation) and the stupid brexiters won't notice and will think they've got what they wanted. I'm really intrigued what she thinks will happen, politically, in this country, if this happens. I don't mean riots in the streets, I mean how will people use their votes. She didn't even seem to address the effects of basically doing a non-Brexit Brexit, as if it's just some minor technical issue.

And this

all proved irrelevant to the 52% who wanted just one thing – out, as a badge, as a state of being, as a national identity and as sovereign freedom from foreigners in Brussels or over here

I don't know what that even means but it doesn't sound like sensible political analysis to me. Does "sovereign freedom from foreigners" mean wanting to live in a country which make its own laws? Oh, how very racist. Rant over.

wrong I felt the same reading Honeys post. Excellent.

I have heard about PT but could never bring myself to read such drivel.

On good news today -some leaked memo says " have cake and eat it" and something about a hard Brexit.

Suggest you stay away from Nicola Horlicks wrong or you'll never be done ranting. Just seen her on the Daily Politics pointing out everything wrong with the labour force with complete lack of insight into how the EU may have caused the problem rather than being the solution.

PT's a twat.

That's pretty much all I have to say about her tbh.

This was copied from behind paywall but maybe it will open. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/29/end-eu-dominoes-could-fall-bring-political-collapse-europe-know/

winter and Mango You have a very good approach to PT. I just keep finding myself reading her drivel, even though it makes me physically shake with anger. I can't stop myself

And (I'll stop being the ranter in the corner in a minute, I'm sure it's not in the spirit of the Arms) but what particularly pees me off is the way she always phrases her disgusting slurs so carefully that someone can always come along and say, "no, no of course she didn't really say that all leave voters are - insert insult/untruth/slur - you are imagining it". It's all guilt by association and rhetoric with her and I can't tell if people who don't see it are genuinely not able to see that if you write an article all about the murder of Jo Cox/racism/bigotry/violence and leave voters where you link them all together in a great pot of vitriol, just putting a little get out clause of "of course I am not blaming all leave voters for the murder of JC" doesn't negate all the rhetorical, slightly more subtle ways you have been saying exactly the opposite. All the get out clause does, as I've found on here, is make it harder to point out what she's up to - she certainly knows exactly what she's doing. It shocks me that some people aren't a bit more able to see her rhetoric for what it is and just go for a literal interpretation.

all proved irrelevant to the 52% who wanted just one thing – out, as a badge, as a state of being, as a national identity and as sovereign freedom from foreigners in Brussels or over here

WrongTrouser you say you don't know what that means - to me, that is another way of saying what posters on here were saying: that if Brexit cost '£100 million' (actually estimated at £59 BILLION) it would be 'worth it to be out'. Now, I don't know what that means, if I'm honest. I don't know what it is about this 'out' that's so 'worth it'. But isn't that 'badge of being out' exactly what posters are saying is what they do want?

But Seek, we don't know what it is about this 'in' that's so 'worth it'.

Well, I assume the last thing you want is for me to go over all the economic and environmental arguments that were made before the referendum, or the effects on the economy since (which I suspect we would read differently anyway!) again!

Seek I don't follow your argument. Is saying "I want to not be in the EU" the same as "wanting the badge of being out"? If it is, then surely "I want to be in the EU" is the same as "wanting the badge of being in". It's just yet another way of trying to dismiss the genuine reasons of people who do not want to stay in the EU, and trying to imply they are just some sort of meaningless noise with a label stuck on.

Still in the market for Euros but sitting on my hands till after the Italy vote on Sunday. Feels too much like a one way bet atm. Where is this stable EU we should not risk leaving?

Wrong - the way I read your post, it seemed you were saying that you took issue with Toynbee for saying that Leave voters wanted to be out at any price, just for the sake of being out.

And although you perhaps feel that there were lots of genuine reasons, her words really just reminded me of posters on here saying 'I don't care what it costs, it will be worth it to be out' - but not actually saying what would be good about being out.

I want the badge of being 'in', by the way, so that our children and students can work and study abroad; so that my colleagues from the EU know they are safe and welcome here; so that businesses can keep trading with EU countries; so that we can work with the EU on emissions and climate change; so that we are not an isolated lump in the face of Trump... among other things. It's actually a really useful and pragmatic badge to have. It gains you access to things.

And I want the badge of being out so my dc and Dgc are safe from an EU army, so that we can trade globally, so we can set our own laws, so we can work globally on emissions and climate change with disadvantaging (sp?? )British Companies or industries. So that we can still work within a framework of workers rights we have helped write. So we can cease contributing to a wasteful, undemocratic supranational behemoth we never agreed to join.

What EU army would that be though?

We do make our own laws, our record for dealing with climate change on our own is pitiful, and we have (or, increasingly, had) trade that worked in the EU and beyond: and it is actually not just EU countries which increasingly no longer wish to trade with us.

WrongTrouser, please do carry on ranting in the corner - it saves me doing it.

I've had to further postpone my Botox jab (which is already a month overdue) to afford Xmas.
Now that my forehead has movement, it is a daily struggle for me to not frown.

Brrrrr.
Just popped in to ask 'WTF is Cameron?'.
His tenants must have served their notice by now - is he back in North Ken?
Do you think he watches the news and doesn't give a cos most of the Remainers would never have voted for him
Anyway?

I dont want a badge

It makes a nasty hole in my clothes

Are there lanyards ?

I would be happy with a lanyard

Copied from the Westmistenders thread - quite an interesting take on Brexit.
(Googled Ms Detter de Frankopan, and she's some woman!).

http://moneyweek.com/dont-trigger-article-50-just-leave/#disqus_thread

Well that plan has my vote: pull out now sort all the shit out after. Every time a Remoaner says what's the plan to me from now on that's going to be my answer and even better it a bona fide experts plan I love it!

It's the 'Frankop(l)an'

Genius