Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

I'm confused why people would accept lower standard of living to stop FOM.

I would imagine that it is because the very idea of foreigners coming here to live is viscerally abhorrent. This aversion towards the concept of migration is commendably consistent amongst those posters who also direct opprobrium at British citizens living abroad (as seen on this thread).

People moved country within the EU on the understanding that they could remain permanently. Children have been educated in English. Families have bought homes, built careers, contributed to communities legitimately. None of those people voted Leave and none of the British citizens in the rest of the EU did either - all those people who had done what the EU was created for them to do. And now Brexiters want to move all those people around and throw their lives into complete chaos?

How unutterably callous.

Lurking - your post of 16:53 says it all. I too remember those days well. The country was not great. Theresa May can prattle on all she likes about 'the country being open for business' but her behaviour says it's anything but.

I would really like all those who have come here from the EU since the year 2000 to be made to get the working visa or leave even if they have children born here.

Please tell me you're having a laugh.

Please tell me you're having a laugh.

This poster has been consistent in their view on many threads.

Dadbot the question asked was what sort of Leave is wished for and from that it was asked if leaving meant a reduction in living standards would it be acceptable. You are making this about FOM when it's clearly not.

I suppose what I find hardest to understand in all this is that I have always lived in multi cultural communities with both people from Asia and Eastern Europe. I grew up in a city that was built on immigration, from Huguenots on. The difference there between the 1960s /early 70's and now is that the industries they had come to work in were still the source of some shadow of the former prosperity the town enjoyed. You can actually correlate the rise of racism and the polarisation between communities (most now into second and third generation ) with the decline of those industries and living standards. Where I live now we are enjoying the prosperity Maggie's economic strategy delivered so immigration is not an issue.

What is going to happen when all the EU immigrants are sent home and living standards actually do decline? All very well saying that you personally are willing to accept that price but where will the people who directed their frustration with their situation to immigrants direct it when the government has reduced immigration to the 10,000s and life is even shitter.......

Please remember Trying's post is just the view of one leaver on these boards and doesn't speak for everyone.

I would say however I do agree with her up until the point where she states she would like work permits to be retrospective and apply to those already here.
I feel strongly that people who have come here to work and pay taxes etc. should be allowed to stay.

I would also say that as I want to have the same visa conditions for all migrants from wherever in the world they come from.

As for Lurking's suggestion that 'we fucked your ancestors over when we invaded your country and we fucked their decedents when they came here too'!
I don't remember us ever invading or occupying any Eastern European country to 'fuck' their ancestors. We certainly acquired an Empire by dubious means but I would say that anyone wishing to come from anywhere in the world would be welcomed if many leavers got their way.

I feel strongly that people who have come here to work and pay taxes etc. should be allowed to stay.

Everyone's welcome to stay.

I would say that anyone wishing to come from anywhere in the world would be welcomed if many leavers got their way.
I don't think 'welcome' is the right word, maybe more 'tolerated' if they have skills that really no one else in the UK has.
That's not quite the same.
We all heard 'British jobs for British people' from the government last month. I'm not about to forget it.
Leavers who welcome foreigners, I suggest you make more noise, because at present your government doesn't think it can break it to you that a compromise might be needed whereby the UK must take in people from abroad in return for trade (see India!).

I would say that anyone wishing to come from anywhere in the world would be welcomed if many leavers got their way

And the exact opposite if other (perhaps many more) leavers got their way.

Dadbot, if we had fewer immigrants there would be less pressure on the NHS and other public services and we would not have such a housing shortage.
The UK has always been a reluctant member of the EU. I think it was inevitable that we would eventually leave. FOM has benefitted the poorer Eastern European countries. People who have settled here from EU countries must have realised that we would eventually leave the EU.
For me, this is not about money. It is not about the cost of living, although I think any decline will be short lived. It is about the very basic changes to our society, our culture and our communities.
It is not a return to 70's or any other misty eyed past era. I agree these times were not great.
It is about the future of this country. It is about controlling our borders.

trying how is reducing tax revenue going to take pressure of our underfunded public services. The pressures aren't caused by immigrants.

Bored - the question from Lurkingdad was "I'd like FOM to be ended and if that means a hard Brexit, so be it

And you are prepared to accept a lower standard of living to achieve it ?"

Your reply was "yes, I'd accept that"

Why do you to achieve by stopping FOM if not an increase in living standards?

FOM has benefitted the poorer Eastern European countries

These countries are on their knees economically and it's only being exacerbated by FOM.

I would welcome anyone from any part of the world who came here on a work visa or who could fund their life here.
I would like a points system.
I don't think it is right that whole families can come here and have access to our public services.
But that is not saying " everyone is welcome". Of course they will never be. This country is full. We have a housing shortage. We cannot build an upper storey.

Trying - it's all about money. If NHS and education were properly funded, there would be no problem.
Immigrants put more money into the system than they take out on the whole.
I think it is pretty clear now that the economy will be worse out of the EU.
Lack of funding to health and education caused by austerity as a result of banking crisis, but resulting problems being blamed on immigrants.
Kicking out large numbers of tax paying workers and hard brexit will massively confound the funding crisis.

trying so you think workers from abroad should not have the right to family life? People who have been born elsewhere are humans too. Not just a commodity to be used and sent away again at will.

Leave...yes you are right. I should have said that some people from some Eastern European countries have benefitted from FOM

Trying - the country isn't full, far from it. Which part of the country are you from I live in the north and our population has decreased.
We only have a housing shortage because we haven't build enough and we never do. The NHS is hugely staffed by EU migrants so they are hardly a burden to the NHS. All these people are in work and paying taxes to they pay their dues no matter how big their family! Underinvestment in the right areas is the problem for the NHS.

Kicking out large numbers of tax paying workers and hard brexit will massively confound the funding crisis.

But that wouldn't matter to a poster who wants immigrants out at any price.

Oh sorry. I misread the post. I was answering would I accept drop in sol in exchange for hard Brexit which I took to mean out of an. My answer in the question would be that I'd like qualified (I mean with conditions) FOM if EU continues in same format. However, if EU somehow closes its own borders with non EU countries I'd accept total FOM.

Widow... Of course everyone is entitled to a family life. Of course they are. I did not suggest otherwise.
I said that people who come here on work visas should not be entitled to bring their family.
Coming here for a better life is not compulsory. Nobody has to do it.

I've said all along that this is not about money as far as I am concerned.
It is about the changing nature of the country. The changes to the culture. There are many areas of this country where local people no longer feel at ease. Theresa May was right in last night's speech.