Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

Trying - no country I have ever heard of tells people they can't bring their family with them if they come to their country to work. That's just ridiculous.
Only in places like southern Africa where men go to work in the mines of South Africa do people not expect to take their families, only really because there are no facilities for families in the mining camps. That's not what the UK is about.

trying the first paragraph of your last post directly contradicts the second and vice versa.

Currently, the UK has significant skills shortages even with full FOM within the EU. After Brexit, far fewer EU citizens will come here. A devalued pound (currently down 20% and likely to fall more if there is a hard Brexit!) coupled with visa restrictions (can partner come too and work?) and loss of EU entitlements will be a major deterrent those with a skills coming here.

How will the UK fill these skills shortages? Probably with higher immigration from the rest of the world.

After how many years in an area does one count as local? Is it all foreigners which make you feel uneasy or just the Eastern European ones? Which aspects of culture disturb you?

I did not suggest otherwise.
I said that people who come here on work visas should not be entitled to bring their family.

Well, earlier you said "I would really like all those who have come here from the EU since the year 2000 to be made to get the working visa or leave even if they have children born here."

This is (a) retroactively punishing people who moved here with their families and built their lives in good faith, and (b) as you are urging the departure of even UK-born children, anathema to the right to family life.

Is there any Leave issue which wouldn't be solved with more money?

Brexiteers would prefer Britain to be an independent country, with our own government, laws, democracy etc. That is so important to many of us that it's something money can't buy, even if on a low income already. Many people have made sacrifices far beyond money to uphold these in the past.

Yes, it's possible the Tories may put forward policies we don't all agree with, but unlike EU laws which get applied to Britain, they can always be repealed by a later government if they no longer suit us.

Corkie even a wage in devalued pounds is still going to be far higher than payment for the same job in some other EU countries, so I don't think that would necessarily put people off.

Just to clarify.
I would like all those from the EU who have come here since 2000 to either leave or get a work visa. I said nothing about deporting people.
I also said that people coming here in the future on work visas should not be able to bring family members. Not automatically.
I have also said that this is not about money. I do not believe there will be a drop in the general standard of living. There may well be a short lived slight drop.
However, it is undeniable that there is great pressure on public services like education and health care. Also housing. If many immigrants were to leave this would free up school places, doctor's appointments etc. and not as many houses would be needed. But I have never made this pressure my main point. It is simply a consequence.
In my metropolitan area many of the health care professionals are from Asia, Africa and the Indian subcontinent. It is true some are from other EU countries.

A question for remainers: Would you say countries outside the EU are xenophobic, for not having freedom of movement with their nearest 27 geographical neighbours? Surely that is the norm, and the EU the exception?

Ah right, instead of actively deporting them you'd just ask them to leave? What's the difference in your view?

This thread asked those who voted to leave what they thought about FOM. it asked about what system we would like to see in place. I have replied.

A4 and that's before we see what the bond market does to the euro.

Deportation is forced and aggressive. Asking people to leave is not. Look up deportation in a dictionary if you are still confused.

One of the problems with the referendum campaign was that the Remain side kept emphasising the economic effects of Brexit.
Many of us are far more interested in issues like sovereignty, border control, making our own laws. Money cannot buy these. So yes, there are many aspects of leave that cannot be solved with money.

A4document - FOM is reciprocal. Why would I? Why do Leavers tend to frame it as if FOM only going into one direction?
I'd have no problem with further reciprocal agreements with non-member states. The fact that they don't exist yet doesn't make a country xenophobic.

So how would you deal with people who don't copy with your friendly unaggressive request to f off where they came from? Or is your strategy just to make people feel so unwelcome that they neither want to come nor stay?

Yep, money is money and your life is your life.

Deportation is forced and aggressive. Asking people to leave is not

Ah, right. You want people to bugger off because their strange foreignness makes you feel uneasy, but when push comes to shove, you are too squeamish to fully embrace measure required to really make it happen.

Widow, it's reciprocal in theory, although in practice some destinations obviously attract many more migrants than others. How many British people have gone to live in an Eastern European village to share their skills and boost local business?

Why, if not having FOM is an acceptable norm, is it constantly suggested that all Brexiteers are xenophobic for preferring no FOM?

Tryingtosaveup, yes exactly. It's interesting how comments about money nearly always seem to come from the remain side.

Corkie even a wage in devalued pounds is still going to be far higher than payment for the same job in some other EU countries, so I don't think that would necessarily put people off.

Even as it it, we are not attracting EU citizens with skills in short supply in sufficient numbers to the UK. Will these people be prepared to go to the hassle and expense of applying for a visa to work in the UK to now earn 20-50% less (due to 20-50% devaluation of sterling), partner/spouse may not get a work visa, risk jeopordising some of their EU entitlements (no longer EU residents), of course they will think twice about coming to the UK. Those whose skills are in short supply generally have plenty of options and will consider going elsewhere in the EU or going to Canada or Australia instead.

I also said that people coming here in the future on work visas should not be able to bring family members. Not automatically.

We'd love you to come and bring your families too!

A4document 2.2m UK citizens are currently living in other EU countries. fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/ really can't say it's reciprocal only in theory.

I meant to type 1.2m. My point still stands

The Elements...I am not squeamish and I would never ask people to "f off" or "bugger off". I am neither crude nor rude.
I would withdraw all benefits including child benefits and access to all social provision such as health and education. I would explain that they are welcome to stay as long as they have enough money to support themselves.
Leavers were asked on this thread for their views. These are mine.

Oh, and Elements " their strange foreigness " does not make me feel uneasy. It does not make me feel anything. Stop putting words into my mouth. And such emotive words too!
I want control of our borders and a work visa system and an end to all benefits for immigrants. Nothing emotional about it. Very practical.