Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

What is it they actually want? Something to change.

But who is going bring that change about for them? I can't see Theresa May's Govt doing this. At one time I would have said report it to HMRC but the staff there have been cut back severely. Too much red tape you see, harms business. So you get exploiters like this and they get away with it. People forget thatworkers banded together in Trade Unions to stop this exploitation.

We could start by naming and shaming these firms.

What is more serious is that it's unlikely that your friend's stamp is being paid.

16 hours at minimum wage is £115.20 pw, that's below the Primary Threshold of £155 but over the Lower Earnings Limit of £112. So there's no NI for anyone to pay and as long as the employer submits the figures to HMRC the friend would get her NI credit.

The employer will be putting that £7.20 through the books though and somebody somewhere will be drawing it out as cash and pocketing it, tax free.

Why is your friend only working 16 hours - because that is when the benefit cap is dropped. There should be a gradual capping to encourage more hours. Maybe unskilled work in the country would be done if the T&C were ok, but FOM stopped that. Also some unskilled work, such as fruit picking, only exist in this country due to farming subsidies and EU food import tariffs - outside the EU we can have much cheaper food.

Last 5 posts, really, have nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with the UKs tax and benefit system, which is the result of UK government policy.

If the UK didn't have tax credits as a benefit, then it wouldn't have to pay them to EU workers in the UK.

Also some unskilled work, such as fruit picking, only exist in this country due to farming subsidies and EU food import tariffs - outside the EU we can have much cheaper food.

So you're saying that if UK farmers weren't subsidised they wouldn't need cheap labour any more because we'd buy all our fruit and veg from non-EU countries? So we're going to be getting our potatoes, carrots and sprouts from Ukraine instead of Norfolk now are we?

outside the EU we can have much cheaper food.

Wouldn't that just put all our farmers out of business though? I always thought food security was a Gov policy.

Besides, hardly anyone has actually set out the immigration policy they want to see.

Food security is a problem for us. It was during the War and it would be now if any sort of emergency arose.

Food security is bollocks and UK landowners farmers are only subsidised due to EU CAP and the French demands it continues. EU food is 15% more expensive than world markets. Some food will be grown/made in the UK but less - the govt will save money, people will save money, trade with third world countries will increase and the environment will improve with more wildlife. Ending farming subsidies is probably the single best thing that could be done in this country, and one big reason I voted out.

The UK has always been very sceptical to the EU social charter so if anything workers rights and conditions will now deteriorate. I don't think the NHS is that wonderful. I think its a strange belief that all immigrants love the NHS so much. Its free, but compared to healthcare in other European countries not great. It will be privatised by the Tories now anyway has already started.

Selfishly, I'd love to see FOM between the uk and oz...

I'd like freedom of movement to continue and actually be freedom for humans to live to a good and enjoyable standard anywhere they choose.

Currently we have "movement of labour" under a more socially acceptable name. I'd like to see the humans benefit and not just the corporations. That would be lovely.

Carole - thanks for coming back to answer my question. Have just got on here to see it.

Capranna About 60% of NHS money goes to private profit making companies/sole traders. It has since the very start. The Tories have not changed that much since the very beginning. The only things not free at the point of use, dentists, opticians and prescriptions were many years ago by the Labour party.

Maybe unskilled work in the country would be done if the T&C were ok, but FOM stopped that

How has FOM stopped that?

So it seems from the small number of leave voters that have said what they do want our post EU immigration policy be, most of them are happy with FOM as it is. Do you think this is representative for leave voters? If so, why has FOM become such a red line?

If 37% of the electorate (which I believe is about 25 -28% of residents) voted out, and about half of those want to end FOM as a big red line, then that means about 15% of the UK population are demanding that our children lose their rights to FOM and the other 85% are letting them.

Although actually, from the leave voters I know who actually did want to leave the EU (not just protest vote) immigration was the only issue they cared about. Suspect that neither mn or the people i know are representative though.

Maybe we need another referendum asking whether we want to continue to allow fom with the European Union. It would then be in an easier position to work out what sort of Brexit deal the uk should look for.

FoM has become a red line because it's one of Theresa May's obsessions from her time at the Home Office. Maybe if she had been Health Minister we would have seen a different red line.

"There are both positive and negative aspects of FOM, the problem is these cant really be debated because trying to discuss the negative aspects always leads to accusations of racism."

100% agree. The refusal of the European Union to recognise negative aspects of fom is an issue. Population growth can cause huge issues and area of the EU which have lost all their young people have problems as well.

I am not a leave voter and I am pro-immigration

However, I would like to see wages protected. For example, london bricklayers used to get £20 an hour in the early 00s, now they get around £9 an hour because the jobs are so eerily filled. This needs to stop. I'm not sure how, hopefully someone smarter than me can think of a way.

Very interesting Two goats. I can only say that FOM must have a lot to do with the fact that bricklayers wages have gone down in London so much. What else can it be than an influx of people from poorer countries willing to do the work for a much smaller wage.
Fakename - where do you get the idea that 'most leave voters are happy with FOM'! I can't see any evidence for that at all.
Your misconstruing of the voting percentages is quite interesting - according to you half of the leave voters are not bothered about FOM - no - and that half of 37% is 15%! Remember if only 37% of the voting population voted to leave then only 33% voted remain.

I cannot speak for the commercial sector but prior to the arrival of Eastern Europeans with building skills there was a drastic shortage of reputable builders who would provide value for money on domestic projects like loft conversions etc. in London. I know of plenty of people who could not even get a decent builder to quote for work and / or ended up with terrible experiences at the hands of cowboys who did not employ people with a basic level of competence in terms of bricklaying skills in particular (at one point I knew of three people suing one local firm after basic mistakes like not tying in the brickwork on a new extension to the existing brickwork). People resorted to recruiting builders from elsewhere in the country who even with the cost of bed and breakfast were still much cheaper, and did a better job. Or they just did not embark on domestic building projects because it was just too formidable a challenge /uneconomic . I don't doubt people with the skills were able to command high wages because there was such a shortage of competent builders. Of course when Polish companies entered the market not just offering value for money but courtesy and respect (as opposed to the too frequent arrogance and misogyny that added insult to injury when having to deal with cowboys ) they cleaned up, and there has been an explosion in the number of building projects undertaken, therecan't be many London homes left without a loft and back extension. I would argue that as far as the domestic market was concerned this was a classic case of there being a skills shortage that was holding the industry back.

Which is part of the reason Jarvid has already announced early on that any visa scheme will include builders, only bankers were identified as a priority at an earlier opportunity www.ft.com/content/5ef97cfa-870c-11e6-bbbe-2a4dcea95797?0p19G=c

corcory there has been a shortage of British bricklayers for years.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30390005

one again, not the EU's fault, is it, that British young people cannot or won't train as bricklayers.