Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

FOM was fine for as long as the EU had 10/12 member states.

I'd like FOM to be ended and if that means a hard Brexit, so be it

And you are prepared to accept a lower standard of living to achieve it ?

I voted leave and want an end to FOM. I would like working visas for skill shortages. All those who are here working pay taxes at appropriate rate.
Holidays here recorded to stop overstayin, or we issue visas. No benefits at all including child benefit. And health insurance a must.
Anyone with enough money to provide for themselves for the duration of their time here can come on a visa, but no access to NHS or education or benefits.
If this affects Brits in EU countries so be it.
If living standards here drop as a result so be it.
I would really like all those who have come here from the EU since the year 2000 to be made to get the working visa or leave even if they have children born here.

If this affects Brits in EU countries so be it.
Do you genuinely not care, to this extent, about the lives of Brits living in other EU countries?
If living standards here drop as a result so be it. Do you genuinely not care, to this extent, about living standards here? Would a drop in living standards affect you, do you think? Your family? Friends? Anyone you know?

Lurking Yes I would be prepared to accept that.

If this affects Brits in EU countries so be it.
If living standards here drop as a result so be it.
I would really like all those who have come here from the EU since the year 2000 to be made to get the working visa or leave even if they have children born here.

Charming.

Lurking Yes I would be prepared to accept that.

Actually I have a lot of respect for that view (I don't agree with it but I do respect it) at least it's honest and realistic about the price we will pay. Much better than the nonsense some spout about being able to end FOM keep all access to single market and basically the EU doing everything we tell them to do and giving us everything we want with no concessions on our part.

Sapphire, yes, I genuinely do not care. That is what I said isn't it. I do not think that Brits who have moved abroad have the same investment in the future of this country as those of us who have stayed here. They have a vested interest in Remain, so yes I discount their views.
You can say" charming" all you like.
Leavers were asked for their opinions on FOM. I have given mine. I do not mind if you don't like it.

Boredofbrexit
fakenamefornow

Thank you.

What would your response be to someone who voted Leave, but doesn't want to accept a fall in their standards of living ? Particularly if they say they'd rather remain than see a fell in their standard of living ?

Lurking. I'd accept their position.

Trying you want to remove children who have been born here? Nasty.

I would say that if they didn't want to see a fall in their living standards they should have voted Remain. Ending FOM AND remaining part of the single market is an unrealistic position, it always has been and this was very clear even before the referendum despite prominent Leave campaigner shouting this down.

Trying, it wasn't me who said 'charming' but OK.

'I do not think that Brits who have moved abroad have the same investment in the future of this country as those of us who have stayed here.'

Even if they may come back at some point? Have UK friends and family?

Do you know anyone who has any connection with the rest of the EU or might in the future? (anyone who may wish to go on holiday who would then have to deal with visas/fees etc; children or other young people who may like to work somewhere else in the EU).

What sort of lower standard of living are you envisaging? Would it affect you, or your family or friends? How? Lose-your-job affect you or have-to-sell-one-of-the-Jags affect you, or somewhere in the middle?

Trying how would you great EU citizens who came here after your cut off date that is 16 years in the past, don't work in a shortage occipation and are married to British citizens who earn less than the spousal visa sponsoring threshold?

Widow, I'd wonder why they hadn't already applied for citizenship.

BoredofBrexit - the whole point of FOM was to allow people to move between EU countries forever, not exclusively to leave a settled position in one country for a settled position in another.

I idly wonder how this would affect my cousins. All born in the UK after we joined the EU, to parents from two different EU countries neither of whom is a UK citizen.

So they have lived here all their lives, but aren't UK citizens.

Do we seize their property when we deport them ? After all, they don't need property in a country they can't live in ?

I voted leave and want an end to FOM. I would like working visas for skill shortages. All those who are here working pay taxes at appropriate rate.
Holidays here recorded to stop overstayin, or we issue visas. No benefits at all including child benefit. And health insurance a must.
Anyone with enough money to provide for themselves for the duration of their time here can come on a visa, but no access to NHS or education or benefits.
If this affects Brits in EU countries so be it.
If living standards here drop as a result so be it.
I would really like all those who have come here from the EU since the year 2000 to be made to get the working visa or leave even if they have children born here.

This is one of the few coherent views I've heard from Leave campaigners.

In terms of immigration, it's basically a return to Britain before 1973.Immigration will be more controlled. There will be little or no immigration from within the EU as a devalued pound, visa restrictions and loss of EU entitlements will make it relatively unattractive for those with skilld to move here. Immigrants who are arriving will mainly be those on working visas from Pakistan and India. A few hundred thousand retired British 'expats' will return from abroad.

Yes, living standards will drop significantly. But, at least, there is acceptance of this.

So basically non-British people would be told to go home unless they were someone filling a skillls shortage. And British citizens in the rest of the EU would return to the U.K.

Crikey.

Corrie. Not sure about the devalued £ part.
Nor the lack of attraction to those who might want to come on work visas. And,
Worth extending your projection now to consider what effect this potential scenario might have on housing, employment, We are not in the 70's or going back to them.

In terms of immigration, it's basically a return to Britain before 1973.Immigration will be more controlled

Ah ! The misty eyed fantasy of "everything was OK in 1971".

Bollocks it was. We had massive public disorder and unrest about immigration in the 60s - remember Enoch Powell in 1968 ?

Immigration was "out of control" long before the EU was a factor. I suggest anyone who thinks it wasn't re-acquaint themselves with the Smethwick by-election in 1964

By all means, crack down in immigrants. By all means kick them back to where they belong. By all means rip settled lives and families into tatters and despair.

But do not do it under the wicked lie that leaving the EU will take us back to a fantasy land which never existed. People in the UK were unhappy with immigration then too.

I know very well how badly immigrants were treated in the 1960s - my Dad told me as an immigrant himself. (We'll leave out how upsetting it is for him hearing insults from the past in modern voices).

I'm confused why people would accept lower standard of living to stop FOM. What is halt to FOM supposed to achieve in itself?
Is there any Leave issue which wouldn't be solved with more money? Better funded NHS, more schools etc?
If you just don't want foreigners here even if their leaving negatively impacts you, it's hard to defend charges of xenophobia.

People have moved here and built lives, had children, have friends, co-workers, neighbours, whole support networks and made the UK their home.

More fool them, according to Brexit.

Although it's hardly a great advertisement to the rest of the world we are told we need to engage with post Brexit.

"Come to the UK. We fucked your ancestors over when we invaded your country, and we fucked their descendants over when the came here too."

Oh, and chatting to my Indian offshore team (and these are the guys that Theresa May desperately needs to buy into post Brexit UK) I really wouldn't get my hopes up. She's not got a very good profile with the more educated Indians.