Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

User, You have had a number of straight answers, it's just that you appear to disagree with them. As with my question about cancer research, which I notice you have ducked.

I don't doubt that this research could well relocate elsewhere in the EU taking French, German, Dutch etc. researchers with them, but what a pity, to say the least, that the UK would apparently rather turn its back on being a part of this.

Whatwould - the question I asked was "What personally is in it for you to remain" answer -your kids want to work in the nice parts of the EU.
You felt sick ? but you have a good job and live in London , why would you feel sick. The poor, unknowing people of your northern home city, why feel for them , I mean they have brought this on themselves after all haven't they? Do you think they need to be saved from themselves?
Peregrina - who's a leader in cancer research ? you ?
I thought USA would have been up there amongst the leaders.
Pere. -what does being in the EU mean personally to you?

Can I just breifly point out it is perfectly possible to work in countries that are not part of the EU and do not have FOM?

Except if you need to apply for a visa it's more difficult. Given the choice of having to stump up visa costs for a prospective employee or one equally well qualified who doesn't need one, which one is an employer likely to chose?

User Aung San Suu Kyi returned to Burma from her trip to London and meeting with Theresa May very clear that UK investment in their emerging democracy would be reduced and tied to business opportunities rather than need, I think you are naive if you think Brexit and the prevailing mood in government and the country is not going to make a difference to our role in the world, outside the EU it will be narrower and more short sighted . Burma was the wealthiest country in South East Asia prior to the military government acting as a brake. There is huge potential there if they are supported in the healing process.

Peregrina - who's a leader in cancer research ? you ? Me personally, no, but some EU friends work in university research teams which I believe are world class. As I said, I don't doubt that this work could be relocated, and having FoM and being multilingual they could easily leave with it. This would be to this country's detriment, in my opinion.

But why the snide goady comment? Does cancer research solely benefit the individuals working in this research or is it for the good of society?

Fakename - as Peregrina said up thread , UK had clean air act long before EU.
Peregrina - but Pere. you haven't told me what's in it for you.
Yeah ,yeah . yeah cancer research - do you honestly think that this country is going to stop medical research - get real woman.
And before any one starts spouting about the best brains in the country leaving or the best brains of other countries not coming here - don't be silly , they were talking about the brain drain years and years ago.
As far as I can see we still have a fair amount of clever people here UK born or other.

Will leaving the EU help?
Maybe not. But how could people vote for the status quo?

Some people did believe the promise on the Red bus. Even though the leaders of the Leave campaign immediately reneged on this and said that it was just an idea or just a sample of what might be done.

My own GPs surgery is threatened with closure - due to an inability to recruit staff, which as far as I can tell, is absolutely nothing to do with being in or out of the EU, but government policies. Recruitment is difficult because younger staff are not coming forward to replace retiring GPs but going to Australia and New Zealand where the working conditions are better.

I know people who work in the Middle East too, but it was not as easy for them to get their jobs as it was for my DD to just go to an EU country and find work.

aouriana British Scientists working in the EU are being told they need an EU passport to stay part of their project, that is happening now.

Bored Of course nobody has a crystal ball, and I do respect that some people voted to leave out of genuine belief that it is not a "good thing" to quote the historical term. However I have yet to hear a convincing argument from any leaver on how we make up for the negative effect on our competitive advantage in global markets that arise from both the financial passport and the already damaged benefits for Science, Technology and our universities that in my judgement leaving the EU will have. That damage will translate to millions less for our Exchequer and the NHS etc.

Whatwould - Yes that is very , very worrying about financial support being tied to business opportunities , but hey I certainly didn't vote for this Fascist government - but we can vote a new government in in 5 years time. And don't call me naïve , I am anything but.

Peregrina - young people are going to Australia and New Zealand for a better life . That says it all to me.

Or you could say young health professionals are going to Australia and New Zealand to practice the job that they trained for i.e. treating and curing the sick, instead of being weighed down by box ticking exercises and penny pinching, and being so short staffed here that they just can't do the best for their patients.

Peregrina - you first say that the UK can't get young people to fill it's vacant jobs , but then in the next breath say that your daughter has gone to the EU because she can't get a job in the UK.
( Now I know the real reason that you voted remain by the way - I knew it was for either yourself or one of yours)

Peregrina - but why are they not going to the wonderful EU countries?
As for tick boxing et al - really? they are going half way across the world , not for an easier life , but because of less tick boxing .
By the way , for give me if I am wrong but isn't Australia one of the most racist countries in the world? One word - Aborigine.

User, I said nothing of the sort. My DD left a job in a prestigious university, widened her horizons with a job in continental Europe and came back to the UK with broader experience and got a better job. But I didn't tell you that, so you jumped to conclusions which were quite wrong.

So having debunked that argument for why I voted Remain, would you like to tell me my other reasons, since you apparently know?

Whatwould - you do believe that "some" people voted leave because of a genuine belief that the EU is not a good thing - that's very descent of you , if not to say bloody patronising.

Pere. -NO NO NO - I based my reply on the information that you gave me.
I still know now why you voted remain though.

User The doctors and nurses that I know who have gone to Australia have done so because they felt that the stress of working in ever more demanding positions where lives were at risk was simply not worth it. I am talking about having worked in critical care where you had responsibility for five patients when you first qualified to finding yourself responsible five years later for ten with only the back up of an untrained health assistant. In Australia because of the infection risk it is considered unsafe to care for more than one.

User - No you didn't base a reply on information given, you jumped to conclusions which were totally wrong. And you haven't got a clue as to why I voted Remain. I could quote a previous poster's words back and say, that's bloody patronising.

Pere. - well why can't I assume things about you , it's what you remainers do about leavers all the time. Either we are too stupid to know what we are voting for or we are racists. Not nice is it having some stranger making false assumptions about you.

User, I have not made any accusations about Leavers and what they want. It's my belief that the majority of people voted the way they did because they thought it would give everyone a better life. Which seems perfectly valid to me. I would exclude the out and out racists, who want to e.g. kick out all the Muslims and blacks. I would like to think that they are a minority.

Peregrina - well that is what I having been asking you all this time and still haven't had the answer yet. Remainers have always asked what do leavers want - well I am asking you as a remainer , why do you personally wish to stay within the EU ? What's in it for you . The answer is glaringly obvious - your daughter went to work in the EU.
By the way someone very close to me attended a very prestigious University in the EU. But that was for their advantage only , so that they could go on and get a better job , not for any allegiance toward the EU.