Leaves, EU immigration/FOM what is it you actually want?

[fakenamefornow]

Tourist visas?
Working visas?
No visas, just no work?
Maximum length of stay?
Funded how?

I am really clueless about what exactly you want.

User1471 - when are you and your children going to live in very poor Romania then? I can understand why you would want to live in Portugal or Germany.
But I also note that you voted remain for your own self which is absolutely fine. I hear where you are coming from and I really appreciate your honesty. But too many remainers on here keep on telling me that because I voted to leave then I am thick , xenophobic etc. when in fact what they are really miffed about is not being able to retire to Spain et al.

Remainers what they are wanting from the EU

I want FOM to stay as it is now. I don't have a second home.

I was talking to somebody a while ago who wanted FOM to end as her children/grandchildren were never going to be able to take advantage of something like that it was just for rich people. I disagreed and said I thought it was just the opposite. Rich people can go and live wherever they want anyway, FOM means that ordinary people can have this chance in Europe at least and that it doesn't take a lot of money to take advantage of. It's our young people going on a cheap package holiday to Spain, having a great time and not wanting to go home so asking in every bar and restaurant for some work so they can stay. I went to Arctic Finland a while ago, in the hotel and activities (dog sledding etc) about 50% of the staff were from the UK, the other 50% were from other countries in Europe, Spain, Germany, Romania etc. It makes me really sad that in future young people from the UK will miss out on experiences this and the staff will just all be from other parts of Europe, no UK youngsters as FOM seems certain to go for them.

User I am a northern pleb, which is perhaps why I have no time for illusions of superiority and entitlement whether it is a builder in Wickes or a Tory politician....

We don't have a second property either nor are we likely to have,unless you count the shed on my allotment.....

Twogoats "For example, london bricklayers used to get £20 an hour in the early 00s, now they get around £9 an hour because the jobs are so eerily filled"

With all due respect for the problem, which i totally recognise, the idea of ghost bricklayers has given me a much needed laugh

Peregrina -what's second homes in the UK got to do with anything?
Please answer my question - what personally has being in the EU done for you.
None of the usual remainer suspects seem to have an answer - funny that eh.

It brought in equality legislation which we have all benefitted from. Environmental protection which benefits us all including clean beaches - do you really want your children playing on a sewage polluted beach like we used to in the 1950s? Freedom to travel easily and enjoy other cultures. Locally, with scientific research being a major industry, brought good staff to the UK, making us world leaders in some fields and bringing wealth to the country.

I added second homes in the UK because I don't own a second home anywhere. But what has any of this to do with Freedom of Movement?

funny that eh.

Funny indeed - you have already had a number of answers to your question about what we want from the EU.

Fake name - so you want FOM so you can go work in a bar/ have an extended holiday in Finland so that you can "experience the life there " which is more or less the same life as anywhere else but colder. Not because it actually really truly benefits Britain.
Whatwould - you may very well be a "Northern pleb" in London .
But that doesn't answer my question , nor does it explain the xenophobia that you have heard in Wickes . It's odd isn't it that I can't say that I have heard much racist abuse in my Northern town where there are a lot of "forriners" of one sort or another . I thought that we were the racists.

What do I value about the EU? I have set this out before but nobody ever bothers to engage but here goes ....

That it enables us to stand up for shared political values in the current geopolitical global environment, something that has become even more important in the last few days. As an example the political situation in Asia is likely to be about to become dificult for our democratic allies and for those nations evolving into democracy who want to preserve their self determination in the face of Chinese influence. EU investment trade and political influence is important to them.

I want the continuation of the EU passport as a continuation of being a source of competitive advantage in the global economy for the 78% of our economy that relies on services. Understanding in particular that the other world players barbpossibly now America want to do business with the EU more than with the UK.

I want British Science and technology to continue to be another source of global competitive advantage by benefiting from full collaboration and involvement in EU Science and technology networks

I want my children to be able to continue to feel European and to have the freedom to live and work in 27 countries that they value.

Above all I don't think what I want is the main issue, the wishes of the emerging generations who will have to make their future working lives in the deminished economy that we will be left with (are already left with) whatever sort of Brexit gets delivered are far more important. I will be retired, not fair to inflict a shit show in them.

Peregrina - I remember the beaches at Scarborough in the 60's being very polluted and they started to reduce this pollution well before we joined the EU in the 70's .
Most of the other countries in the world are concerned about climate change etc. they are not in the EU we don't have to be in the EU to care.
As to my having 'many answers now ' no I haven't nothing apart from a few builders being cheaper than the locals and wanting to work in bar in Finland. Not nice is it to be pillorised.

whatwould - what a load of rhetoric crap.
The only thing I believe there is that your kids work in the EU in a "naice" part of the EU that is.

Ron. There's nothing to say we can't achieve an outcome similar to that outwith the EU, and equally there's no guarantee that the EU will continue to provide competitive advantage. I also think when posters go on about clean beaches and so on they are referring back to laws and standards of 49 years ago - why they don't think we - the home of law - are capable of creating equal laws and standards, beats me.

Not 49, 40

User I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I am glad you don't hear xenophobia in your northern town but I have certainly heard it become more commonly expressed in mine, especially in terms of using a certain derogatory term for the Asian community, alongside the mutual respect between immigrant communities (Eastern European and Asian) that I grew up with. Why would there not be people equally prone to xenophobia in a builders merchants in London? Especially if they have an Express or Mail on the windowsill of their van which has been feeding it?

No second home owning elitists yet then.

I think your preconceptions of us might be a bit off, user.

My kids don't work in the EU, but they would like to and the sort of opportunities they would want to have (in Science ) could just as likely be in Prague as Brussels or Berlin...

Notdavid - hardly surprising that no one will dare admit to owning a second home in the EU. What was that you were saying about misconceptions? Funny how people get the wrong idea isn't it.
Whatwould - ah the truth is out now -you and yours voted remain for you own advantages not because you care about the UK. Thank you.

Whatwould -Prague is a beautiful city with very lovely people - how about Turkey, I don't mean Istanbul, or Romania and for at least 20 years would they go then ?

I said 'a number' not 'many'. I think you didn't like the answers.

There is no reason whatever why we couldn't set environmental standards - I believe that in the 1950s we were doing just that with the clean air acts. Which were vitally necessary. I remember the last London smog in 1962.
As for clean beaches - some may have improved but others needed the EU or its forerunner to give them a boot up the backside. There is no reason why we couldn't lead the way, but recently governments have chosen not to.

User Crap? Now who is being offensive about individual values, pretty offensive to be so derogatory about my hopes for my children.

My "rhetoric" on the value of the EU to Asian countries is something I feel very strongly personally about because I have lived and worked there (and still work in Asia related business), studied recently for a Masters to help understand it better and I have become deeply involved in an NGO that is working hard to deliver educational opportunities to children there, and I have witnessed the difference that EU money has made to help rescue children in the country concerned not just from extreme poverty but also the most vile exploitation. Anyway I am not going to respond further to the goading, sorry about your retirement plans.

You asked what personally we get from the EU! I can assure you that I felt personally sick on the morning of the referendum vote because of what it means for the country and especially the most disadvantaged, and there are so many if those in the city I grew up in, who voted for this but will be most affected .

So being a leader in say cancer research is just self interest is it, or is it for the good of the whole society?

Peregrina - what answers ? I haven't had any straight ones yet .
Whatwould - I am very pleased for you . The poor countries of this world need all the help that they can get. But the UK being either in or out of the EU will have no baring on the support , financial and otherwise that either the EU or the UK give. I apologise for using the word "crap" I just thought that I would see what it felt like and I have to say that I don't like it.
But I still stand by what I believe of remaniers in that they only voted remain for their own personal benefit , not the benefit of the country.

Please answer my question - what personally has being in the EU done for you

Peace in Europe and NI (although we may have just sacrificed that).

Oh and clean air. The Europe has just told us to clean up our air, 40,000 people a year are dying in the UK from poor air quality. After Brexit we can tell them to fuck off with their clean air, we're keeping our dirty air.