To ask again who is happy about the direction Brexit is heading

[Bearbehind]

I wasn't going to start another of these threads after the second ended last night but today's ruling in the High court is pretty significant so I thought I'd ask again

Are you happy with the current state of play?

This bellyaching for a definitive plan will just mean closing down options.

Ohhhh I see... The Plan is to have No Plan!

No, I am not happy with the current state of play. We have a group of people who think that because they have money that they can go to the High Court to put a spanner in the works. These people are Remainers & all their talk of Parliamentary Sovereignty does explain their motives. Basically, they don't like the result of the Referendum & are seeking to stop BREXIT.
17.4m voted for BREXIT under the understanding that the result of the Referendum would be binding. Indeed, the Government's own £9m booklet was worded in that fashion. Parliament voted overwhelmingly to put the matter to referendum & are morally obliged to take note of the result of the vote. Both major political parties seem to accept this. I think it is a really pity that Article 50 had already been enacted as until it is triggered we will have no idea exactly what the end result will look like. The Government can't reveal its negotiating position & understandably, EU countries won't reveal their's either. The net result is uncertainty & acrimony between Leavers / Remainers. It is really time for the country to move on.

We have a group of people who think that because they have money that they can go to the High Court to put a spanner in the works. These people are Remainers

This dude isn't:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-legal-challenge-deir-dos-santos-speech-high-court-david-greene-theresa-may-plans-voting-to-a7395096.html

17.4m voted for BREXIT under the understanding that the result of the Referendum would be binding
I would like to think at least some of them understood the fact that it was advisory, given that we're constantly being told how much 'research' they did before voting.

elements

People keep ignoring that poor Leaver dont they

It must be like being the ignored one in a band...he is Ringo

he is Ringo

The exacting wording from the document which the Govenment produced at the cost of £9m is below:

'On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum. It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU).
It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your children for decades to come.'

Sorry, but I think you can see why the British Public believed that they were having a direct say in the issue. The average person is not well versed in the British Constitution (much of it is unwritten.) I think Parliament is morally obliged to now honour the result of the vote (if the matter goes there) & move forward. If they won't then Theresa May will need to look into repealing the Fixed Term Parliament Act & get us some MPs who will listen to the nation. You can't offer people a vote & then because it doesn't accord with your views ignore it! I am worried about the potential for civil unrest should Parliament try to take this cause of action. This is in no one's interest however they voted.

You can't offer people a vote & then because it doesn't accord with your views ignore it

Have Parliament said they would ignore it? Everything I've read or heard has been the exact opposite, namely previously Remain-supporting MPs saying they would vote for Brexit because Will of The People.

Theelementssong -At the moment, both major parties have said that they will abide by the result. However, they want to know how BREXITwill look & that can't happen for the reasons outlined above! Parliament is going to have to agree to trigger Article 50 before they have any idea of the final destination. The Liberals are threatening to move all kinds of amendments & some in the House of Lords are indicating they will slow the process down. In many ways it would be best for the Government to go to a General Election & seek a new mandate as soon as possible.

I think Parliament is morally obliged to now honour the result of the vote (if the matter goes there) & move forward.

You mention the P word - Parliament. This is what the case was about - getting Parliament to have a say about what sort of Brexit we are aiming for. So far most MPs have said that they will honour the result of the Referendum - which was only really a statement of "we'd like to leave the EU". No clarification as to how we should do it or what we should put in its place was sought.

If they won't then Theresa May will need to look into repealing the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

And just how does Theresa May do this, without being a dictator? She has to lose either a vote of Confidence or a majority of the House have to vote to Repeal the legislation.

How does she get us some MPs who will listen to the Nation? Does she go round telling x, y and z that they have to resign, because they don't agree with her and she says so? Then does she personally select the desired candidate? Then does she say to the voters in x, y, z's constituencies that there won't be an election because she has selected a, b, and c. This could happen if they were the only candidates standing, and they were returned unopposed. So does she ban the other political parties, because they dare to think differently?

Truly we would be well on the way to fascism if that happens.

In many ways it would be best for the Government to go to a General Election & seek a new mandate as soon as possible.

Possibly. Each party would then need to produce a Manifesto, so Theresa May would need to spell out what sort of Brexit she was after. I don't think "Brexit means Brexit and that's all you plebs need to know, would necessarily cut it.

Peregrina: No, Theresa May wouldn't personally select /deselect candidates that is in the gift of the constituency conservative parties. Most of the members of the constituency parties are on the right of the party & would be likely to deselect candidates who will not vote through the BREXIT Legislation. The Party is 17 points ahead in the polls & has a narrow majority in Parliament. She could put a 3 line whip on the repeal of the fixed parliament act. Although, many Conservative MPs may will be keen for a General Election as it means that they will put off the Parliamentary Boundary Reviews & will fight on the exist boundaries (they get to keep their jobs for another 4/5 years!) Theresa May then has the mandate to carry out BREXIT & the support in Parliament.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/06/birds-eye-walkers-supermarkets-price-rise-brexit-vote-pound

"Birds Eye fish fingers and Walkers crisps are asking supermarkets for price rises of up to 12%, in the latest standoff between household brands and retailers over the dramatic fall in the value of the pound.

A Walkers spokesperson said: “Whilst our potatoes are British, we import a number of different ingredients and materials to produce a finished packet of Walkers crisps such as seasonings, oil for frying and key raw materials used in our packaging film.

“Fluctuating foreign exchange rates, supply pressure on key ingredients and the weakened value of the pound are impacting the import cost of some of our materials and affecting the price of material costs based on commodities that are traded in foreign currencies.”"

The more I read over the weekend the more dismayed I've become.

There really are people out there who

• are so stupid they think we left the EU on 24th June and don't know what the fuss is about
• think that last weeks ruling means Brexit won't happen
• are only furious with the ruling because it means discussing the actual details of how we leave and they just want immigration to be the priority no matter what
• still can't give us any tangible benefits to leaving the EU that don't involve immigration.
• need advice on which EU laws we should say we don't like when asked as they can't actually think of any for themselves.

It's terrifying.

Still No.

You know, the really ironic thing is that if Parliament HAD actually legislated with terms and conditions to make the referendum binding, then Remain would most likely have won.

So, minimum turnout, minimum threshold of majority for change, perhaps the suggested amendment that each constituent nation of the UK had to agree... all the sorts of things that countries which habitually use referendums know to legislate for.

Not to mention the fact that the government went out of its way to stop ex-pats voting (there was a court case, wasn't there?), stopped EU citizens in this country voting, and stopped 16-17yo's voting. Reversing any one of those would probably have swung it for Remain... It's all a bit arbitrary for such a massively expensive upheaval.

"The average person is not well versed in the British Constitution (much of it is unwritten.) "

Most of the British constitution is written down, it just isn't written down in one place. There is always Wikipedia, accessible to most people in this country, if they could be bothered to have a look that is. I find this so depressing!

Making people accountable for telling lies would have probably swung it.

The CPS is apparently considering investigating the lies in the Leave campaign

Not sure what good it will do but it's interesting nevertheless

So, minimum turnout, minimum threshold of majority for change, perhaps the suggested amendment that each constituent nation of the UK had to agree...

Should have a look at Switzerland. They probably have more popular initiatives and referenda than any other country (several a year, actually). And yet they don't need any of the things you suggested... although they do vote by the absolute majority of the 'regions' (canton. Or states) and simple majority.

Not to mention that forcing somebody to vote/make a decision if they don't want to is extremely undemocratic and unethical. If people don't want to vote then that's a democratic act in itself.

I read that. I can't see it happening but it would be so satisfying.

There really should have been some sort of control of it all. It's bad enough when politicians lie in an election campaign but outright lies which could change all our lives for ever and which they'll never be held properly accountable for are just beyond the pale.

And the number of people who still bring out the full range of lies to support their point of view is just astonishing. It's not that they're thick, ignorant or whatever, they just seem to be gullible and unaware that there are sources of information other than biased newspapers - they can check these things for themselves.

And the number of people who still bring out the full range of lies to support their point of view is just astonishing. It's not that they're thick, ignorant or whatever, they just seem to be gullible and unaware that there are sources of information other than biased newspapers - they can check these things for themselves.
Actually the people I find more infuriating are the ones who shrug off the £350m on the bus lie and say "oh, we weren't taken in by that, no-one believed that... don't know why the remoaners keep going on about it, all politicians tell porkies, etc." as if it's a perfectly legitimate way of campaigning. I hope the CPS does investigate this, but won't hold my breath.

It's still "No" Bear.
I am becoming worried about another thing now: when all of this goes tits up (unless other political parties and speciallly Labour get a grip and act sensibly and effectively), who will the "people" blame? That anger has to find a way. Will we be fighting each other? We won't be able to reverse the process of exiting EU obviously. Brain drain will happen too. What is going to be the state of the matters then?
I am thinking of this in regard to my own personal interest too. I won't lie. But seeing the whole country getting divided in the middle apparently is very hard in itself.

all politicians tell porkies

That's it though isn't it? We sort of accept that they do. But this wasn't party politics, vying for power for the next 4-5 years, this was deciding the future of our country - possibly beyond the lifetime of our children even.

If a politician lies to me before an election then I can (in theory) vote his party out within a few years. What recourse do I have against Farage? And once the damage is done, which will possibly last for our lifetimes, what recourse do we have against anyone?