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Brexit

Westministenders. Boris grabs his clown suit for Halloween, whilst we wonder if parliament survive until Bonfire Night

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/10/2016 13:23

Remember, remember the 5th of November. Gunpower, treason and plot. For I see no reason Why Gunpowder Treason Should ever be forgot.

Here we are 401 years after Guy Fawkes was foiled. The failed attempt to kill the King and destroy parliament celebrates stopping what is now regarded generally as an attempted act of terrorism but to others he was a martyr.

This division would form part of the dynamic between various factions following the death of Elizabeth I which eventually led the civil war as Charles I dismissed Parliament to avoid its scrutiny. A division that lead to Irish and Scottish uprisings. A division that lead to the lost of many of our then colonies to another nation.

You start to wonder just how much has changed within British Society.

The dynamics of the era might be different, but following the referendum vote we have a power vacuum into which our uncertain direction and future is fuelling cries of ‘traitor’, there is widespread loathing of Europeans and their values who apparently ‘threaten our way of life’, many are simply given the label of ‘potential terrorist’ purely for their religion, there is ill feeling throughout Ireland, in Scotland, there is talk of revolt and uprising, our parliamentary democracy seems potentially under threat by the power of the crown and the relative stability of the long reign of Queen Elizabeth must end soon and her heir to the throne is a man named Charles.

Strangely enough, many of the rights being quoted in the a50 case originate from this same period of turbulence in British history, or from the direct consequences of it. It is not a coincidence.

So where are we at? The decision on a50 and what it means for our parliament is due before the end of the month. It is not likely to be the final ruling but it will set the tone and direction for what happens next. Is it likely to win?

In my opinion, whilst the constitutional argument might be strong in principle the challenge has a great deal of merit. Several of these might win out but the most compelling of these is: If a50 is triggered and our government is unable to reach an agreement by the end of two years we will leave the EU and rights will be removed as a direct result which is outside the power of the royal prerogative.

Against this, May herself has set up an atmosphere where the court challenge which is a protected right of the people to challenge the government has been framed as ‘subverting democracy’ which raises questions about how the ruling will be accepted if it goes in favour of the claimant. The anger on display on Question time last night is worrying. The government must make a strong point about respecting the ruling even if they challenge it. And conversely if the challenge looses, they must acknowledge its merits and legitimacy to appeal rather than allowing it to be framed as a blank cheque for their agenda.

It must – once again - be stressed that the challenge is not about thwarting Brexit. It is about making sure that Brexit is done properly and with due diligence.

And you have to seriously wonder if May is using due diligence. Donald Tusk said we might get into a situation where it is ‘hard brexit’ or ‘no brexit’. This has been interpreted as an EU threat. Personally I think it is nothing of sort. It’s a warning. For our own good.

The much talked about CETA agreement (Candian Free Trade agreement) all but collapsed on Friday due to a single region of Belgium opposing it. It is now in last chance saloon to save the deal. This is the context behind Tusk’s comment. He also warned that CETA might be the EU’s last FTA as result of the difficulties in trying to pass it.

What he meant was the chances are that no agreement will be possible with the approach the British seem to be taking. This means the alternatives will be a chaotic unmanaged exit with no transitional deal or a realisation that we are better off sticking in the EU afterall.

Understanding this is important. May is missing this in her determination to be tough, and is further alienating European leaders. May has made assurances to Nissan, but the reality is she is in no position to make any such promises as the reality is if she stick so tightly to the line on immigration she has no way of keeping them. The EU will give us no ground at all here no matter what anyone says. The harder May is, they harder they will be.

When Cameron tried to do a deal which restricted migration, the brick wall he hit was the fact he could find no evidence to back up the claim that migration was a problem. When he turned to MigrationWatch for help the best they could come up with was newspaper clippings. The UK lie 13th in the EEA for migration. The EU pointed out that all the problems this highlighted where caused by UK level policy rather than EU policy and Cameron was forced to admit that hostility to migration was much more cultural rather than an economic or one over services. As a commentor in the FT sums up: “In other words, lots of middle English people culturally dislike immigrants even though the immigrant didn’t have any negative impact on them.” Notably Thursday’s questiontime came from Hartlepool – a area with hardly any immigration and where 95.6% of the population are white english born. Its also been a week where there has been uproar over 14 refugee children coming to the UK due to their age, gender and lack of cuteness, whilst announcements over no more money for the NHS have been all but totally ignored. It’s a sentiment that is getting increasingly difficult to argue with especially with the overall tone coming from May’s lips and actions.

Tusk’s speech was also strong on 1930s references and this is largely the motivation behind strong comments from Hollande and Merkel about a deal being hard to get. They simply won’t stand for rhetoric which they believe sounds as if it has fascist undertones. The message was lost in the British press though. On top of this, even if Hollande goes, Saroksy and Juppe have been lining up to talk about moving Calais’s problems to Kent. Something that is entirely possible if we disregard our international commitments to Dublin.

This is why we need the article 50 ruling so badly. And this is why May is so opposed to it. It actually gives her a way to back down and save face. Failing that parliament must up the ante and pressure May with its full force – and it may cost her dear. And this is why the right wing media who make a profit from peddling lies about migration are so opposed to them as May is such a kindred spirit.

It has got nothing to do with an elite conspiracy to derail Brexit. Many, many remainers with heavy hearts think it must happen to prevent a further lurch to the right. It is not because Brexit must be stopped, but because May’s self destructive vision and approach to Brexit must be stopped and replaced by an approach that at least acknowledges the dangers rather than labelling it as treason or a lack of patriotism to do so. Marmitegate has been our warning; Leadsom has this week has been unable to refute the possibility that food prices will go up 27% something that many working class leave voters who feel left behind just can’t afford. That way lies even greater hardship and division.

Brexit MUST have a transitional deal if it is to work at all, however unpopular this might be and however people are afraid that delays will kill Brexit entirely or be seen as a fudge as this is in the national interest. This needs to start being the approach of all and pushed to the public by Leavers and Remainers alike

Brexit MUST not trigger a50 on a certain date because May made a political promise to her supporters and this happens to suit the EU’s agenda too. It must be when we are ready, when we have a better consensus and when we are prepared. The uncertainty over whether we will achieve a smooth change is as damaging as a delay to investment. Brexit MUST also include tackling xenophobic attitudes and confronting our centuries old ingrained mentality as this brand of ‘British Values’ were the ones that lead us not to our greatest moment, but the one that lead us to perhaps our greatest crisis and threat to our future.

I find a certain irony - and also a creeping fear - that the first article 50 ruling should fall at this time of year. Especially since the British celebration is being forgotten increasingly being replaced in favour of the more American Halloween. I wonder what further frights and horrors await us over the next couple of weeks.

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merrymouse · 28/10/2016 13:45

(Except of course for Heathrow)

merrymouse · 28/10/2016 13:46

www.zacgoldsmith.com/campaigns/

whatwouldrondo · 28/10/2016 14:15

Merry The school place crisis is now biting in the Richmond Park end of the Borough of Richmond with 11 year olds not having a place at first allocations in Kew, Mortlake and parts of Barnes, as well as the decades old issue of a lack of sufficient places at Primary level. The only option the LEA is offering those emerging black holes is the new school on the Richmond College site, way up the A316. The LEA tried to keep it quiet but it is all covered on the local thread (actually it is the Twickenham local page but there is a thread there trying to hold the borough to account that has almost as many new threads as this one). The LEA have a decades old strategy of managing /deterring demand by leaving large numbers of parents on waiting lists leaving whole areas of the borough knowing that they are in black holes of provision.

In contrast the Kingston School was brought about by a cross party LEA initiative by the borough of Kingston which brought together a trust to propose it as a Free School once it was clear that was the only route to central government funding. I don't think Zac can claim credit /has done much about either situation, whereas the Libdems have played a role in support in Kingston and opposition in Richmond.

whatwouldrondo · 28/10/2016 14:21

Peregrina Parts of the constituency have seen a very sharp rise in affluence in the last twenty years, mainly driven by financial services. The professionals and academics that were the core of Lib dem support have sold up to the bankers and city workers. Big issues with all the fancy renovations and basement extensions (including the one that fell down. To some extent liberal discussion has given way to a zone of complacency, it can be a bit of a bubble. However it makes the hard /soft Brexit issue a potential bubble burster.........

merrymouse · 28/10/2016 14:33

whatwouldrondo, won't Mortlake pupils be too far away to be guaranteed a place at a school in Twickenham? Is the problem lack of confidence in what was Shene school?

Peregrina · 28/10/2016 14:36

However it makes the hard /soft Brexit issue a potential bubble burster........

So a different sort of blue that Witney - which wasn't all true blue by any means. The villages were, where they have voted Tory since the party was invented, and Carterton, being military...

Hmm interesting.....

merrymouse · 28/10/2016 14:37

I.e, for the purposes of this thread, he doesn't seem to be able to claim success in schools, so what has he done?

Peregrina · 28/10/2016 14:48

So if he gets back in, he will be Tory in all but name, and will probably re-join the Tories at some point, so what exactly will he have achieved?

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2016 14:54

A nice big bill to the taxpayer, some publicity for the lib Dems and his smug face all over the newspapers to bury his mayor campaign from memory.

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whatwouldrondo · 28/10/2016 15:25

merry Last year they offered Barnes pupils who had not got into Richmond Park Academy (formerly Shene School) places at Twickenham Academy, the school at the opposite end of a complicated journey across the borough in Whitton that the LEA has since finally admitted the Swedish sponsor and its experimental methods was not going to be improve. It is not clear why it took them ages to agree a bulge class at RPA to accommodate them.

I think if anything the problem is that RPA is winning back parent confidence. The LEA assumed spare capacity in that part of the borough on the basis parents would continue to be deterred and it would continue to be undersubscribed, except that it became oversubscribed several years ahead of their forecasts. The LEA admits a new school in the Mortlake area is going to be needed, the brewery site was mentioned. However the new Richmond upon Thames School (imaginatively so named after a competition ) is an LEA project partly to prop up Richmond College post their introduction of sixth forms, partly to welcome Haymarket to the area and they need it to succeed so I don't see them setting up another school until it's success is assured.

However with a third of all pupils in the borough educated privately and an even higher proportion in the Richmond Park end, the schools situation is not quite as big an issue as it might be elsewhere which is why they have got away with it for so long A lot of those private school pupils probably would be in state schools if there were enough good school places, which explains the rapid increase in demand for RPA. If the number of 11 year olds going on to state secondary schools were to increase to the average of the ten most affluent boroughs in London (and Richmond is not in the top 5) then it would need two new five form entry secondary schools to accommodate the extra pupils. However in general parents face the crisis, write to their MP ( I bet Zac has a stock reply) find their own solution, out of borough school, move, go private, and end up quite happy so that the issues never get the political traction they should. (Although for a while in Twickenham parents really did mobilise with Vince's support but that is another story )

merrymouse · 28/10/2016 15:56

thanks whatwouldrondo.

Peregrina · 28/10/2016 16:07

Will schools be an election issue, in Richmond, do you think?

whatwouldrondo · 28/10/2016 16:26

Peregrina As i say I think it becomes a huge issue for a short while for parents who find themselves with uncertainty about a decent school place. I am sure Zac's mail sack gets a huge hit at allocation time, but once they solve it on way or another most parents are pretty all out with other issues like holding work and home life together in the face of commuting, childcare massive mortgages, school fees, after school activities, tutoring. I think a candidate could capitalise in the Richmond Borough end of the constituency on challenging LBRUT but I don't think it will be a vote changer except for a few....... and the Grammar Schools are very popular with some parents, possibly out of desperation with the difficulty of getting into the outstanding comprehensives. Thousands apply, and most of those have spent years being tutored as well, but then thousands make outstanding comprehensives their first preferences too. A stand against the grammar Schools being allowed to expand would be risky.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2016 16:40

I'm in London this weekend and am meeting up with one of dh's friends from that neck of the woods. ( Been planned for a while) i'm sure the topic of conversation will turn to the subject sooner or later mainly cos I know she hates goldsmith's guts (not that she's a ld fan either)

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Peregrina · 28/10/2016 16:45

I'd be interested to hear what people in Richmond think of May too. In Witney, Cameron was felt to have let the side down, but May wasn't liked - don't know whether that was because she was a Remainer who turned or whether it was to do with the tone of the Tory party conference which angered moderate Tories. (So they stayed away, but not enough of them stayed away IMO Grin)

Peregrina · 28/10/2016 16:59

Don't know which thread this belongs on but
Morrisons are raising the price of Marmite by 12.5%! This is worse than the Tesco price rise was going to be.

TheElementsSong · 28/10/2016 17:08

I suspect a lot of things have gone up by a fair %age but just haven't been publicised. I think I've mentioned before that butter has gone up from 85p to £1.10 in Sainsburys (and 95p to £1.20 in Waitrose) - my 2 closest supermarkets - I bake a lot so buy this very regularly which is why I noticed.

Peregrina · 28/10/2016 17:11

It can be hard to tell with price rises, because I for one, tend to buy things which are on special offer. No doubt we will see packet sizes reduced instead.......

Ah well, the country has spoken.......

TheElementsSong · 28/10/2016 17:20

Yes I also look out for offers and reduced items (and have zero brand loyalty) rather than having a more rigid shopping list, so in general I haven't noticed much of a difference in my weekly shop.

PipesTheGhost · 28/10/2016 19:10

I've noticed my weekly shop costs more recently. Sign of things to come Haloween Sad

PipesTheGhost · 28/10/2016 19:12

I have 2 dcs with ASD so they are very 'rigid' in their food tastes, fucking marmite being one of them.

Corcory · 28/10/2016 19:33

Interesting about the butter Elements. I will be doing an Asda online shop later so will check their price. I have to say however 85p is the cheapest butter has been in years and was always going to go back up again at some point. I always buy British butter so not sure why that would be affected by Brexit.

TheElementsSong · 28/10/2016 19:36

always buy British butter

Me too Corcory so I don't know why it has gone up so much, maybe fuel and transport? Or because loss leaders are being kept down (e.g. milk is unchanged) so they're trying to make it up elsewhere?

GloriaGaynor · 28/10/2016 19:43

Richmond's down the road from me, same demographic as my borough, similar referendum result. All the Richmondites I know are appalled by May.

RiceCrispieTreats · 28/10/2016 20:03

Can somebody please spell it out for me: What implications for Brexit do the Richmond and Witney by-elections have?

I've been clicking back on the past two threads but haven't found an obvious answer. Thanks!