Does anyone else sense a change of mood re Brexit?

[twofingerstoGideon]

I was rather astounded following the referendum that politicians of all shades weren't making noises about Brexit needing parliamentary scrutiny etc., but at last - after almost four months - it's as if people are waking up, noticing the shambles and saying "Hang on a minute... I'm not sure we should be doing this..." It was shocking to see the lack of reaction to the xenophobia and the way politicians of all shades seemed to be saying we had to blindly obey the very slim majority. The lack of disgust expressed by the press/politicians about the barefaced lies used by the Leave campaign (not to mention that poster) was also mind-blowing.

Has anyone else noticed a change in the air? I'm starting to feel slightly hopeful for the first time since 24th June that the country isn't just going to jump off a cliff in order to follow 'the will of the people'.

Anyone else, or am I deluded?

It's a jargon phrase.

Yes, countries that normally hold referendums have rules about whether the referendum is binding, what turnout is valid, what information can be supplied to the electorate etc... and they have a more specific question.

If the referendum had offered 3 options: Should we leave the EU?

1. No
2. Yes, if this can be achieved at little or no financial cost to me
3. Yes, and I don't care how much this costs me; I think we would have seen a different result, either 1) or 2), but the gov't seems to be going for 3).

And a little piece of political advice from Northern Ireland; if you're going to piss people off, do it in the winter; hardly anyone riots when it's brass monkeys out.

May intends to invoke a50 in March. Right at the start of Spring....

It's not a jargon phrase.

The whole 350 million thing is a prime example. An incorrect fact that even when expert and clearly correct analysis says is wrong, it's ignored by those making the claim and one that makes appeals to emotion.

Not jargon. Fact

Weren't the riots of a few years back in November? Admittedly it was fairly mild.

If people are sufficiently motivated they'll march (not necessarily riot ) in any weather.

Remember the millions that matched against going to war in Iraq on a freezing cold February day (at least, it was freeeeeezing in Glasgow, don't know about London) not that it made any difference

The last riots were in august 2011 I think.

prettybird it was absolutely freezing in London too, we had to stop for a hot drink! I'll never forget that day and the sense of impotence we felt together, thinking that common sense would prevail, and we have been proved right, albeit too late....

I'll be very interested in the by-election results.

I think the problem is that the current political players have their hands tied. None want to oppose the voice of the people. But neither do they really want Brexit. The EU also need to be seen to be tough. My guess is that Theresa is playing a long game and waiting for the situation to play out some more while establishing allegiances.

In fact, the politics of post truth were operating in full and facilitated the Iraq war, and probably gave way to the situation we have today.

Yy, I was on the Iraq march in London, it was pretty chilly but I'm pretty sure no-one rioted. Maybe we should have, though.

I was actually dressed in my best posh coat, to send the message it wasn't just scruffy hippies who were concerned about this shit.

My guess is that Theresa May is floundering and that her bossy headmistress tone may go down well with her privately educated cabinet, but won't cut it on the continent.

I was part of the stop the war coalition, it was a fab day, but I do remember that there were far more people than we thought.

Hordes of people are decending on Hyde Park as the speeches finished. The busses we queuing to pick people up who had not got there yet

Great day though

boulevard no riots and it felt totally safe - we were carrying my newborn baby!
Peregrina that post has connotations that made me smile
fetishistic old boys cs dominatrix

Unexpected Stop The War reunion...!

That's an interesting point, jaw5, I do see parallels with how I felt back then, being more and more amazed as the papers filled up with stuff that was clearly absolute bullshit, and mystified as to why people seemed to be believing it.

Wonder what would have happened if we'd had a referendum on the war back then? Not that any gov't would let the electorate decide something they felt was actually important...

smallfox I got involved with the stop the war coalition and got fed up in the end at how the SWP had to control everything and use it to proselytize anyone who got close. Very tiring. Corbyn was great at the anti war campaign, very commited. I don't think he's doing a great job as leader though, and will not forgive him for sabotaging the Remain campaign.

Yes boulevard same feeling of watching a slow motion car crash, believing until the last moment that someone will stop it. I remember crying while watching the Commons debate, when Robin Cook resigned and sat at the backbenches, his friends comforting him. An image of courage that I'll never forget.

The London organisers as I remeber were far more than the swp, but I know what you mean. Jesse jackson was a great speaker too though!

It's one of those things though. We thought at max there was a million there that day, the police said 500 000, the swp said that 3 million comrades had marched kol

I really hope that in 10/20 years time when it's clear how fucking stupid Brexit was, Farage, Johnson and the rest are still around to be held accountable.

It was a great day, followed by heartbreak as those first bombs hit Baghdad. I thought the official figure once every estimate was considered was 2 million, but yes, it was huge.

fake me too. But look at the massive fuckup by Cameron, and where is he now? Same for Blair, yes, he did look contrite after Chilcott but he's fine!

I felt like it had all been for nought when the bombs fell. But I always remember standing on piccadilly and watching so many people go bye and I knew whatever happened, I would have faith in humanity

The other question is, will young people just sit back and take it when they see how their wings have been cut, their opportunities taken away or at least greatly limited? Brexit is going to be catastrophic for any young person looking into a future in science, research, modern languages, etc. Many more will have a voting voice soon and most are not happy...

That whole period was an early example of "post truth"

Regarding the numbers marching, I remember a letter in the Herald pointing out that if the police had manned for 25,000, then by definition, they would admit to no more than 25,000.

This despite the fact that I have run the London Marathon twice (and both dh and have run in lots of other mass events) so have fair idea of the space that 25,000 people involves. Glasgow Green (a large park) was still jam packed full of people queuing to leave it when the SECC car park (our destination) at the other end was full - as was the 3 miles of wide road between the two sites.

There were a lot more than 25,000 people but the police, who provide the estimate, couldn't admit to that.

We're doomed for at least a generation now. Teresa May et al are making it worse. Complete joke of a government, that lot.

David Aaronovitch put it well in his column this week where he pointed out is was authoritarianism, not social exclusion, behind Brexit. The Tories fed the beast.