Solely UK citizens post Brexit ...

[LurkingHusband]

Is it possible that post-Brexit, people who only hold UK citizenship could be at a disadvantage when compared to people who hold UK and a.n.other EU citizenship ?

I'm vaguely considering a post-Brexit where visas or work permits are required for UK citizens to work in the EU, meaning employers (in particular US or Asian) would prefer a dual-national over a pure UK one.

Looking forward to a robust discussion

Chatting with some colleagues, they all felt it would be a situation which simply cannot develop. But at the same time, they also conceded it may be out of the UK control. (Which rather sours the whole "taking back control" mantra).

Although the Government hasn't actually said what the arrangements will be for those who only hold an Irish passport after Brexit.

Will the special status of Irish citizens which existed before the UK and ROI's membership of the EU be resurrected? Even if it is, will the Ts & Cs be the same e.g. no need to apply for the right to remain?

If possible, it might be wise to have an UK and an Irish passport, even if more expensive.

Hyacinth twenty odd years ago, an Irish passport was about double the cost of a UK passport. I had a UK passport, I didn't apply for an Irish one because at the time I didn't actually need a second passport (it would have been a "nice to have") and 70 odd quid was a lot of money. Now I'd need to be resident in Ireland for 4 years to be eligible to apply. With hindsight, I wish I'd done it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. DH and the DCs will have both UK and Irish passports though.

Although the Government hasn't actually said what the arrangements will be for those who only hold an Irish passport after Brexit.

The government hasn't said anything about any arrangements, re:Brexit.

That's not part of the problem. It is the problem.

We return to the crux of the matter. No one, nowhere has a clue what "Brexit" entails.

But, people who are paid an awful lot of money have ways of dealing with the intransigent indecisive and incompetent. It's called "mitigation". And in the face of Theresa-I'm-a-sphinx-really-just-don't-tickle-me-Mays silence, the mitigation is to ensure personnel are able to breakfast in Barcelona, lunch in Lisbon, dinner in Dresden and supper in Sheffield. Possibly with cocktails in Calais and hors d'ouevres in Austria.

If you can't do that, then you are less use to an employer who works pan-EU than someone who can.

Of course, if - regardless of Brexit - FOM is maintained on a symmetrical basis, that all becomes moot. But the fact such an important issue is still undecided means the chips have to fall where there fall.

Remember, it's not just EU businesses. US and Asian - particularly Chinese and Indian - businesses will all be wanting their staff to be as flexible and mobile as possible.

The majority of people who voted Leave won't give a shit about this. In fact I imagine they're pleased because it's not an opportunity they'd ever take anyway. Therefore why should anyone else be able to? It's a giant two fingers up at education and opportunity which are officially Bad in the post facts world.

I still don't see why we should take any notice of the referendum result. It's not representative democracy, it's populism and was advisory only. Why should it ruin opportunities for everyone else?

The longer this goes on, the angrier I get. Morons.

I heard somebody labelled a "remoaner" just because they were getting an Irish passport after being told they needed an EU passport to keep their job (Science research in the EU), by somebody who then realised they were eligible for an Irish passport and trotted off to get the forms "just to prove a point, that I can"

I imagine some people might be offended by my last word. I should perhaps have chosen "dickheads" or something.

Although the Government hasn't actually said what the arrangements will be for those who only hold an Irish passport after Brexit.

Given that you can still be a British citizen and hold only an Irish passport, for a great many of them there won't actually need to be any arrangements. They'll simply be British people living in the UK. It's the position of people with solely Irish citizenship that will need settling.

Informal are you using passport to mean nationality here? Because if you were an Irish citizen a few years back, you're still one now whether you got a passport or not. But the facts you give make it sound like you're not, and you mean you could've applied for Irish citizenship as a spouse even though you live outside Ireland? If the latter, you're right and it's too late, but if the former it isn't. Not nit picking, just it's worth being clear because the stakes are high. I would hate to think you were missing out on the benefits of dual nationality unnecessarily.

HyacinthFuckit It's the latter case - I'm married to an Irish citizen and I didn't claim Irish citizenship back then, when it would have been much easier to do so (think we would have just needed to have been married for 3 years). But thanks for thinking of me!

No offense, but Irish accent isn't a desirable trait for an English language teacher in Wurope.

Compared to what?
A native speaker is always more desirable than a non-native speaker. The preference is BBC or what they call "received English", where I am (Norway - outside the EU) But without FOM and native English how English is taught might change.

I am currently studying English at university level to get teaching qualifications, as I want to teach English. My lecturers are French, and Romanian - No native English lecturers available. I am taught pronounciation by a French linguist. I reckon more of the same in Europe with the UK out of the EU. Years from now, English may fall in importance as an international language. Both the UK and the US seem like they are spiraling themselves out of the world community.

Irish English is beautiful, and Scottish? Yes please!

Hyacinth I'm sure you're right when it comes to living in the UK and keeping an Irish passport in a drawer as insurance in case you ever wanted to take advantage of being an EU citizen.

However, if you were ever to travel outside the UK, getting into the EU should pose no problems, but what would the situation be when trying to re-enter the UK with your Irish passport? Surely that would depend on the arrangements pertaining at the time.

PattyPenguin The advantage of retaining an EU passport would be for living / working / studying in the EU, rather than travelling for holidays.

Presumably you'd just have to demonstrate your British citizenship patty, if the UK were to get rid of automatic entry for Irish citizens. For people born after the UK got rid of jus solis and/or who became British by naturalisation, yes I should think a passport would be the easiest way. But for anyone born 1982 or earlier, their UK birth certificate would prove they were British.

Fascinating and utterly depressing. I'm Scottish and would be entitled to a Scottish passport should there be another referendum on independence and a different result from the last time. I know it's not by any means guaranteed that Scotland would be accepted into the EU, but as far as I understand it it is a given that Scotland would want to be in the EU, so if it succeeded I would end up in the same position as an Irish passport holder, and so would my children, I hope (they were born in England but I was born in Scotland to Scottish parents, so I think they would qualify too).

There's a lot of assumptions that it's only the liberal elite who want or use FOM which I think is just not true.

I live in the French Alps. In the ski stations near us there are tons of British plumbers, carpenters, tilers and bus drivers. They're far from university educated and many are originally from depressed areas of the UK who are making a better life from themselves in France (it is actually possible ). I'm sure there are also other places all over Europe where FOM has given working class Brits opportunities to change their lives. It's not just about globe trotting university graduates.

And if even Brexiters admit that there might be a few years of economic pain, do they really want to cut off the possibility of migrating for work? Believe that there is no possibility of work for anyone other that university graduates in Europe? When the recession hit Ireland, lots of tradespeople who lost jobs when the construction industry collapsed had to go find temporary work in other countries (including Norway). Is that really not a possibility that is even thought about for British people? I spent my summers as a student working minimum wage jobs across Europe. No need for language skills or a degree to earn money in a different country, but FOM is required.

On the language, I have a lot of international colleagues fluent in English. They don't have or want to speak Hugh Grant style English. English is an international language now, England doesn't own it any more. An RP accent is a regional accent as far as the international community is concerned. In the real world, what is important is clear, accurate, grammatically correct English. Being a native English speaker doesn't mean you have this automatically, even if you have a posh accent. I would also say that native English speakers who have never learnt to speak another language are often terrible in an international setting as they speak far too fast, with lots of culturally specific jokes and phrases with no thought or respect given to the fact that it might be colleagues' second third or fourth language.

Actually thinking about it, if you're British because you naturalised, you could show a naturalisation certificate instead of a British passport. There's probably someone somewhere in the UK who's a naturalised British citizen but also has an Irish passport.

Now I'd need to be resident in Ireland for 4 years to be eligible to apply. With hindsight, I wish I'd done it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

DS is in the same boat, and now kicking himself that he didn't apply when he first got married, but saw no need. He's going to make sure his children get Irish passports.

There's a lot of assumptions that it's only the liberal elite who want or use FOM which I think is just not true.
Totally agree. But it fits the narrative to imply that immigrants to the U.K. = all doing lower paid work and undercutting the working classes while U.K. emigrants to the rest of the EU = expat retirees who support themselves or smug elites employed by international companies or one of the EU institutions. Seems that because some people would never visualise wanting to take advantage of FOM that they can't envisage a situation where others would, outside lazy stereotyping.
And yes yes yes to what the same poster said regarding English speakers who have never learned another language being weaker in an international setting because of their lack of understanding of what it is like to be in the same situation in reverse.

Worth noting here that Germany has many more manufacturing opportunities than we do. Last I looked, there were thousands of apprenticeships going unfilled, though that was a couple of years ago so they may have turned it around. And manufacturing in Germany isn't low paid work, either. Still though, FOM's only of interest to the liberal elite. Low income British youth living in areas with minimal economic opportunity couldn't possibly benefit from it.

However, if you were ever to travel outside the UK, getting into the EU should pose no problems, but what would the situation be when trying to re-enter the UK with your Irish passport? Surely that would depend on the arrangements pertaining at the time.

The free travel area still exists, the legislation that set it up would need to be repealed for there to be any difference.

It does indeed, I think people are just concerned because nothing has been said about the plans for this if we left the EU. Particularly as it obviously presents a potential challenge to the idea of controlling our borders that we know some Leavers thought they were voting for. Personally I don't think it's going anywhere, but I can see why people who might need to place any reliance on it would be worried.