Solely UK citizens post Brexit ...

[LurkingHusband]

Is it possible that post-Brexit, people who only hold UK citizenship could be at a disadvantage when compared to people who hold UK and a.n.other EU citizenship ?

I'm vaguely considering a post-Brexit where visas or work permits are required for UK citizens to work in the EU, meaning employers (in particular US or Asian) would prefer a dual-national over a pure UK one.

Looking forward to a robust discussion

Chatting with some colleagues, they all felt it would be a situation which simply cannot develop. But at the same time, they also conceded it may be out of the UK control. (Which rather sours the whole "taking back control" mantra).

It's quite surreal, isn't it, Motheroffourdragons? I remember arriving in Germany and going through all the standard German residence registration stuff, but the whole time I was waiting for someone to tell me how long I could stay, or where I could work, or how to maintain conditions that ensured my legal status. And they didn't. I had just moved to Germany, and that was fine.

I'd previously lived in an Asian country where I was legally required to carry an Alien Registration Card, was deportable for any minor offence, had to renew my visa each year, and where my continued presence depended 100% upon my employer and job. We're back in England now, but I hate that EU FOM is (probably?) going to be denied to my daughter and her generation. Such a narrowing of horizons and opportunity, for so little benefit.

It would of course be illegal for any employer in either UK or the wider EU to discriminate on these grounds

And the US ? China ? They are quite at liberty to add their own twists onto candidate requirements and damn the torpedoes. How will it play out if a UK applicant is turned down in favour of a UK/Irish applicant because the latter has the FOM within the EU the UK candidate may lack ?

I wonder if any cv library type sites are starting to record dual citizenship (I know LinkedIn doesn't at the moment) ?

That's a good point. If we do Brexit to the extent that free movement goes (which is by no means a certainty) I shall definitely be putting my dual nationality on my CV, and would advise others to do the same.

I have dual nationality and am in the process of applying for my passport for the non-UK one (as this would be the best 'proof').

I hadn't considered the potential employment advantages within a non-EU UK, only within the rEU.

And will update my CV today! And start declaring on forms.

I'm an EU citizen living and working in the uk but was born here so entitled to dual nationality I've just never bothered before- I'm starting to worry that maybe I should get a move on and sort it.

I also wonder how this is going to affect smaller EU-based businesses who frequently hire UK citizens but don't have the funds/capacity to sponsor visas, either for new or existing staff.

Specifically: TEFL. The entire commercial TEFL industry in Europe is largely dependent on UK citizens who have FOM and can be hired without much effort or expense. UK citizens have really cornered the market there, and it's hard for other nationalities to break in. All the Aussie, American, Kiwi, Canadian teachers I know who teach in Europe have ancestry-based citizenship or EU spouses (and maybe a few are on working-holiday type visas, but that kind of transience isn't as attractive to employers).

Commercial TEFL is a big industry in Europe, but I don't know a single language school from small independent two-classrooms-and-a-photocopier set-ups, to huge professional chains who sponsor visas. If UK citizens lose FOM, then a) there's going to be an epic levelling of the playing field amongst prospective teachers from other English-speaking countries, since we're now all a PITA to hire, and b) it's going to cost a lot of money for schools to hire or retain staff, unless they can recruit purely from people who have dual-citizenship or ancestry/spouse visas.

And it's not just language schools -- the English language industry in Europe also includes freelance translators, interpreters, subtitlers, exam tutoring, in-company English tuition... etc etc. It's worth more than $10 billion. Who knows what's going to happen when a significant cost/complication is added to its current core resource: the native English-speaker. I suppose it's great news if you've invested in computer-based translation technologies and teacherbots...

Aargh! Going off onto pedantic, uncertain, detail-based rants about this just makes me angrier about the 'Brexit means Brexit' dalek-style bleating. WTF is the plan? What does it actually mean for all these companies and industries and jobs? Does anyone -- Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means Brexit means...

ARumwithaview presumeably this is a massive opportunity for Irish, English teachers? As they will now be the only natively English speaking EU citizens?

Yes, with bells on, Cloeycat.

(Assuming employers are fully aware that Irish passport-holders aren't subject to the same restrictions: I suspect there will be a lot of confusion, so it would have to go in big letters on any application. I AM GOOD TO GO!)

"presumeably this is a massive opportunity for Irish, English teachers?"

No offense, but Irish accent isn't a desirable trait for an English language teacher in Wurope.

CoteDAzur

What is a desirable trait then? Welsh?Scottish?Yorkshire?Newcastle? Or is it just Southern English accents?

No offense, but Irish accent isn't a desirable trait for an English language teacher in Wurope.

I don't know many Irish English teachers in Europe, but I've never heard this expressed. IME students tend to complain about the sheer number of accents in English, rather than any one in particular.

Anyway, even if it's true, I suspect an Irish accent will get a whole lot more desirable in European language schools if it saves managers and students from shouldering the additional costs of visa sponsorship.

MIL taught in an international school many years ago - many of the children had wonderful Edinburgh accents, a la Miss Jean Brodie.

Speaking as a fluent non-native speaker of English whose DC are also fluent non-native English speakers: I would not accept an English teacher with a strong regional accent for my DC and am very glad that my teachers did not have strong accents, either.

This is not about racism or discrimination. Nobody wants to pick up a strong accent when learning a new language.

CoteDAzur genuine question- what accent would you accept from a teacher for your children?

I just wrote a really long post on misconceptions/snobbery about the risk of 'picking up' regional accents when learning a new language... then I realised that was a total derail.

But in (sort of) short: unless you're a student in an isolated media-free zone, entirely cut off from any countries where English is a first or second language, and where your sole exposure to English comes from one teacher, and your mode of learning predominantly involves listen-and-repeat chanting of set phrases unless, then, you're learning English in North Korea then it's really not an issue, and is actually more often an asset.

I started the post after a throwaway comment from a senior manager when I work, who happens to be French (I work for a business that is part of an EU group). He commented that all Brexit would do is hurt UK nationals over UK-EU nationals, as UK nationals would lose something.

As someone said upthread, it's currently illegal to discriminate on ground of nationality within the EU. However, non-EU employers are not bound by such niceties.

Has anyone heard of any suggestions from the ministry of Brexit about this ?

I think it's a given that if FOM goes, UK as EU citizens will also go.

but Irish accent isn't a desirable trait for an English language teacher in Wurope
This could be a good career move then - an Irish citizen with a nondescript yet well-spoken British accent....

I don't agree Cote, there are very successful English summer schools in Ireland that cater for European students, and are extremely popular, for example.
But for education in general, and modern foreign languages in particular, the end of FoM would be catastrophic, no question about that...

"unless, then, you're learning English in North Korea -- then it's really not an issue, and is actually more often an asset."

You are a native speaker, so please don't presume to know what is or isn't an issue for someone who speaks English as a second or third language.

Desperate to hang onto my EU citizenship and for my kids to as well. I want them to have the same freedoms I had to live and work abroad in my 20s - it was amazing and life-enhancing. It also enabled me to pursue my current profession, meet my husband, gain friends in several EU countries, develop my languages skills, see and experience different ways of living. I would happily pay an additional tax directly to the EU to retain this - the leavers could opt out.

Brit Cits are going to need extra skills to stand out from the rest of the world when applying for international jobs - just being fluent in English won't be sufficient, we need to become bilingual / acquire sought after technical skills / pursue higher education etc etc. It will be a shock for many

"most non native English speakers on the continent (apart from the French) all speak with wonderful transatlantic accents, whoever is teaching them."

Then they must have had wonderful "Transatlantic" teachers. It is inevitable to pick up the accent of one's teacher(s).

I have one of those accents you can't place, btw, so have an idea of how one goes about acquiring them.