Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Pro-Leavers - please help

400 replies

CeciledeVolanges · 10/10/2016 08:07

Good morning.
I am following a lot of conversations and events about the referendum and there are a lot of assertions about "what the referendum was about" and "why people voted" and "what people want."
I just wanted to ask, neutrally, if you believe that we should leave the EU what good things do you want to happen or believe will happen when we do?
I can't account for anyone else, but I have seen some really nasty referendum threads and I often get upset about it myself, so I want to say I will not attack or even argue with anyone, I'm just interested to hear the wishes and opinions of people who want positively to leave. It is such an emotive issue - not least to me - and maybe there are some views we haven't heard yet.
Thanks if you do answer! And thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Samosajosa · 13/10/2016 13:42

Bear, I started a thread today asking Remainers for reasons (see thread for Remainers) and it has had very little traffic. You wasn't leavers reasons but there hasn't been much appetite to answer my genuine question.

Samosajosa · 13/10/2016 13:43

Sorry...phone...you ASKED for, not you wasn't.

specialsubject · 13/10/2016 13:55

I mentioned earlier an eu policy that I didnt want - energy. We have had to close power plants before replacements are ready due to eu ruling. Now that doesnt excuse the poor planning on behalf of the british government, (no absolutes, remember) but it does leave us with no escape.

The one-size-fits-all renewables targets are also bad for us. Onshore wind is great in big flat countries in the middle of a land mass with lots of space. That is not the uk.

I quite like having electricity and our supply is now fragile.

smallfox2002 · 13/10/2016 14:11

You realise the Paris Climate agreements that effect some of our energy production and changes that have to happen are international agreements and binding under international law, not EU.

Even leaving the EU we would still be bound by them.

Bearbehind · 13/10/2016 14:14

samosajosa I've said many many times on these threads my reason to Remain was I saw no benefit in leaving.

AlpacaLypse · 13/10/2016 14:34

I have been waiting for the opportunity to get out of the EU ever since it changed from a trade area to a more overt social-political union at the time of Maastricht in 1992.

The general idea of a sensible trading support network I have no issue with. It's the concept of a European State, which is the avowed long term goal of the EU, which doesn't appeal at all.

Meanwhile I don't think the EU in its present form is fit for purpose. It is unwieldy and unaccountable. Laws are proposed by an unelected elite, MEPs merely debate them. It is deliberately designed to be virtually impossible to change from within, as the original founders had seen at first hand how the National Socialist party in Germany managed to subvert a democratic state completely legally in 1933. Completely understandable in the 1950's, but leaving us stuck with tools and procedures that are completely unsuitable for the 21st century. I think the EU is going to implode unless it does the virtually impossible and reforms itself. It's possible the shock of Brexit may be enough to get the leviathan to question itself enough to achieve this - in which case the rest of Europe may be polite enough to thank us! Although I'm not holding my breath for either of these to happen... Smile

Therefore leaving is the only option - or be dragged down in the runaway train with it.

I think it will be more than a few years before the dust settles, but ultimately the UK will be stronger and better off.

Here on MN we routinely tell people to LTB, sometimes tongue-in-cheek of course, but generally speaking we tend to tell people who are in unhappy marriages to get out. To me, the UK and Brussels marriage was irretrievably broken down, and starting divorce proceedings sooner rather than later so that we can all move on is the sensible option.

I'm glad I persisted with reading this thread, despite the derailment attempts. Thanks OP.

smallfox2002 · 13/10/2016 14:45

" Laws are proposed by an unelected elite"

So how do you feel about the executive being able to change laws here without parliamentary debate? Or using a referendum as justification? Far more like the National Socialists than the EU.

Also "unelected elite" the commisioners? Who are appointed by the national governments and answerable to the council of ministers and the EU parliament which can make amendments and vote on bills etc, so is not just a debating chamber.

See just repeating stuff over and over again doesn't make it true!

GloriaGaynor · 13/10/2016 15:46

The formation of the EU bears absolutely no relation to the process by which the NatSocs gained and eventually seized power in the 30s. The latter resembles events here since the summer far more - easily manipulable mob vote + arrogation of power.

'The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.'

crossroads3 · 13/10/2016 16:59

I worked there and have witnessed first hand the waste, the gravy train, the opulence and the arrogance.

A family member, now retired, worked there for 30 years and could not have been a more hardworking, serious person. I knew many like him. Statements like the above infuriate me. I am sure there is some wastage (as there is in the UK) but it really is not the gravy train the tabloid press depict it as.

SuramarMom · 13/10/2016 19:05

Haven't most sane leavers hidden this topic for their sanity yet? 😂

I can tell you how any thread will go and it's always the same posters that can't just keep worrying at the carcas of the referendum.

'Why? Why did you vote this way leavers. Please tell me, let's have a reasoned discussion'

'This is why.'

'Well that's just not valid. I don't accept that you're wrong. So give be some more slightly different reasons so I may piss and moan upon them too'

'No'

'Ha! I knew you didn't have any reasons really. You just did it cuz you thick'

'Slightly baffled silence'

Bearbehind · 13/10/2016 19:18

suranar I actually agree with your post up to the 'you just did it cuz you thick' but that says a lot more about the strength of leavers reasons than anything else

If it's all such a good idea why can not a single person make a reasoned case for why this turmoil is going to be worth it that is based on more than hope and blind faith?

Bearbehind · 13/10/2016 19:23

Sorry, meant up to the piss and main on them too

ScaredFuture99 · 13/10/2016 19:32

Cecile thank yout for this thread and to have tried to get a reasonable discussion going on.

You are totally right that's fighting against each have other isn't going to help at all.

And than you to have still manage tyo show that the Leavers aren't an indistintive mass of people who all want the same thing (I'm sure we can assume it's the same for the Remainers!).

My only :(:( is the fact that people STILL making massive generalisation. Leavers are all this and Remainers are proving again that xxx.
I would have hoped that on a thread like this, people would have realised that you just can NOT make that sort of statement, whether it's the Leave side or the Remain side.

ScaredFuture99 · 13/10/2016 19:36

small I'm sorry but I think you have nicely derailed a very nice thread.
I'm not sayting I don't;' agree with you. Some times, I do.
But banging on about it doesn't help at all. It just just people in corner and then closes the conversation.
And some times, you aren't right and other people, yes incl Leavers, are right.

Tryingtosaveup · 13/10/2016 20:47

To go back to the original thread before derailment.
I voted leave.
I hope to regain sovereignty so that our laws are made by people in our Parliament. People that we have voted in and whom we can vote out again.
I hope our Government will control immigration so that it responds to the needs of the UK, rather than the current open door for some (EU National) but not others. I would like immigration levels to be reduced because I do not feel that our services like schools and hospitals can cope.

I hope it will regenerate our fishing and farming industries.

I hope we can have trade deals with many countries on our own rather than being dependent on the EU negotiating them on behalf of all EU countries.
I realise that all of this, if it happens, will not occur overnight.
I am prepared to pay higher prices and higher income tax to achieve these outcomes.

Tryingtosaveup · 13/10/2016 20:49

Oh, and I am glad I voted leave and am happy with the way the Government are handling the negotiations. I trust them to get the best deal for us.

crossroads3 · 13/10/2016 21:34

I am prepared to pay higher prices and higher income tax to achieve these outcomes.

Not everyone can afford this though. What are they supposed to do? Genuine question.

AnneElliott · 13/10/2016 21:39

It's not that I can't think of the reasons, but I have to think of whether I can put them on a public Internet forum!

The times I have told Ministers that their idea is against EU law means that their idea hasn't been implemented and therefore isn't Government policy or publicly known.

I would rather like to stay employed and people I know have been disciplined for putting work stuff on social media.

AnneElliott · 13/10/2016 21:43

Sorry if that frustrates anybody but i'd thought my original post was clear that it was the public outing of the reasons that was my concern, not that I'd forgotten my own reasons for voting Grin

crossroads3 · 13/10/2016 21:45

But EU law is not an outside law. We formulate it because we are the EU. This is what I don't understand - this othering of a bloc that we are an integral part of. As if we are victims having things done to us.

Apparently only about 12% of UK laws originate from the EU and most of them relate to things like trade compliance. According to the economist Vicky Pryce.

smallfox2002 · 13/10/2016 21:48

Scared? How the he'll did I derail this?

Peregrina · 13/10/2016 21:48

AnneElliot - OK. I was a civil servant myself so can understand your fears.

There must be some laws which don't especially apply to the situation in the UK, but no one that I can recall has been able to come up with a concrete example.

Petronius16 · 13/10/2016 22:11

Do you mean EU laws Peregrina?There's some relevant to tobacco growing that aren't in U.K. laws.

AnneElliott · 13/10/2016 22:14

Have thought of one that I can discuss! Previous Governments looked at minimum unit pricing for alcohol ( and I know that Scotland have done it and are facing a court case).

Whatever your views on the merits of this policy ( and the health experts say it will save lives) there should be no reason why an elected Government should be prevented from implementing it.

Peregrina · 13/10/2016 22:20

I was thinking more of EU laws which related to agriculture in southern Europe with crops which don't grow here, which I couldn't think of myself, so your tobacco growing is one which probably fits the bill.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.