'Brexit means Brexit' - a political statement devoid of meaning

[xmasadsboohiss]

I'm not here to rehash the rights and wrongs of the Brexit vote - I was all for remaining but that's by the by. But TM's incessant repetition of 'Brexit means Brexit' is surely an insult to everyone's intelligence. No one knows what Brexit means that's the whole fecking point! I understand that she's trying to say there will be no second referendum (short sighted anyway precisely because no one knows what the negotiations will throw up) but Nigel Farage's idea of Brexit is I'm sure different from say a more moderate Tory's (?). You may as well try nailing jelly to the wall as define what it really means at this stage.

surfer what control do we have? You really need to offer more than soundbites if we're going to take you seriously.

Control of what exactly?
False consciousness.

We have voted to leave the EU. That was the main victory.
Our PM has given me no reason to doubt that this will happen, she was always in favour of leaving anyway, she was just toeing the party line, hardly said anything in the run up to the referendum which spoke volumes.
What kind of Brexit we get remains to be seen, ( which is why there's no point discussing it on here ) the negotiations will take months if not years.
But UKIP are going nowhere, so if the Brexit deal TM finally gives us isn't good enough, we vote in someone who will deliver.
It's an on going process, but as I said, the main victory has been achieved.

And then people wonder where the notion that a significant number of leave voters are racist comes from?

Are you actually saying you'd like to see UKIP voted into government surfer?

Which of their policies, other than getting rid of as many immigrants as possible, do you agree with?

And then people wonder where the notion that a significant number of leave voters are racist comes from? *

Are you actually saying you'd like to see UKIP voted into government surfer?

Which of their policies, other than getting rid of as many immigrants as possible, do you agree with?*

Sigh.

And that is why Leave voters rarely bother with the echo chamber of MN referendum threads.

I cannot recall ever seeing a UKIP manifesto pledge which says: "get rid of as many immigrants as possible".

And the 'notion that a significant number of leave voters are racist' came about by a vocal minority of Remainers screeching 'Leave voters are racist!' at what seemed to be every opportunity.

Bold fail on previous post.

OK then mango, what can UKIP offer if it its deemed the current government haven't delivered a satisfactory Brexit?

As I said earlier, the whole problem is that there is no consensus on what a satisfactory Brexit actually looks like but expecting an improvement to be offered by UKIP is surely based on much tougher controls on immigration isn't it?

"I cannot recall ever seeing a UKIP manifesto pledge which says: "get rid of as many immigrants as possible". "

Maybe not specifically but their campaigns are very anti immigrant, they have had many councilors and prospective candidates exposed for their racist remarks and views. Farage's poster which was reminiscent of Nazi propaganda etc etc.

You can't claim that UKIP don't represent those views, just like you can't claim that a significant proportion of the leave vote did so on an anti immigration basis based upon prejudice.

The notion that a significant number of the leave vote was based upon these prejudices is not because remainers have said it at all, its based on fact.

so if the Brexit deal TM finally gives us isn't good enough, we vote in someone who will deliver.

The problem here is you have to define what you think by 'good enough'. Then if not 'good enough' you need to define what 'someone' hopes to deliver. Which option out of the potential 17 million would you like to see?

A UKIP manifesto pledge to get rid of as many immigrants as possible may not have been made, but Farage most definitely attempted to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment: i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article11496596.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/psoter.jpg disgracefully using images of refugees who were not even trying to enter the EU.

Our local demented UKIP candidate is a very vocal supporter of immigrant repatriation. There is yards of his racist drivel on our local community website, along with threats to take anyone who criticised him to court for libelling a parliamentary candidate, invoking some obscure legislation. He had a whole 100 people vote for him at the election so I feel quietly confident he will not be making it to parliament if Brexit does not happen. Lots of other similar deranged candidates around the country

"Brexit is Brexit" is all they can say.

The fact it is devoid of meaning - well that's the cherry on the top.

Imagine being a politician tasked with delivering something that nobody has any idea will look like ? It's like being a pig in muck.

Just think. Thanks the the Leave campaigns fact-lite strategy, Theresa May could deliver anything and call it "Brexit". It's a dream come true.

The fact this thread has 35 messages already, suggests there are probably 35 opinions on what "Brexit" means. So at any one time, there's a 1/35 chance of getting it right.

Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving.

For me, there is a huge irony in the fact that the Leave campaign strategy was to rope in people who aren't normally politically engaged to win their case. Which - to be fair - they did. However, it seems to be slowly dawning on them that there is a reason these folk weren't politically engaged. And with Bake-Off and Strictly starting up again, there is a growing problem of keeping them engaged.

If my guess is right, by this time next year, the Leave campaigners will find it harder and harder to whip up "outrage over Brexit backslide", as their "support" melts away.

In two years time (dateline Article 50) who knows how much support the remaining Leavers (see what I did there ) will be able to muster ? I suspect the Brexit Press will continue to try and fan the flames, but in the words of the two ladies in the pharmacy yesterday, as a Brexit story popped on the TV.

"Why are they still talking about this ?"

I don't really want to live forever. But I would love to read how Brexit turned out from the viewpoint on 2116. I suspect:

1. Freedom of EU movement - unchanged.
2. (Non-EU) Immigration into the UK - statistically unchanged, but subject to labyrinthine rules so anyone can claim anything
3. UK-EU trade. No net change.
4. UK-RoW trade ? renegotiated, definitely. IN tandem with RoW-EU trade as canny RoW players realised having separate EU/UK deals is a gift for playing one off against the other.

There we go. Brexit. Now show me where it differs from what Gove et al wanted.

"Why are they still talking about this ?"

Because people think we are already Out?

Well observed, Lurking.

Because people think we are already Out?

As evidenced by idiots people starting threads pointing out that we haven't had a total economic collapse yet, so surely this means Brexit is going swimmingly

What they need to do is reintroduce blue covered passports. We carry on as before. Job done.

LurkingHusband
Reality check -
Hanging around MN trying to be witty doesn't make you brain of Britain.
& Maybe should try watching strictly come dancing, might add a little sparkle to your life.

However, it seems to be slowly dawning on them that there is a reason these folk weren't politically engaged. And with Bake-Off and Strictly starting up again, there is a growing problem of keeping them engaged.

Quite right!

These sorts just shouldn't be allowed to have any sort of a say wrt politics.

Of course, it's only Leave Voters who watch these programs - the Remainers have their minds on such higher planes.

The MN EU Ref Topic:

I know Mango. just when you think you've read all the pompous crap you're ever going to read from a remainer.....along comes another gem. 😂

I saw this on Facebook and it made me .

I can't name check as on my phone but the sentiment of 'control' and 'if we don't like the negotiated deal, we'll just vote someone else in' sentiment is, I fear, way off mark. It took 41 years for the goverment to offer a second referendum on the issue of eu membership (a referendum I firmly believe we as citizens were not equipped to properly vote on). We have two years once article 50 is triggered to negotiate an exit deal. That's just the exit deal and not the trade deals by the way. Once the two years is up, we're at the mercy of the eu in extending that period but otherwise we are stuck with whatever is negotiated. There is no going back at that point unless we get in the queue with the other countries wanting to negotiate membership/access to the single market and trade deals.

I really hope we are given a second referendum on either accepting a negotiated deal or remaining before the end of the article 50 deadline but I think this is unlikely. Despite believing we have gained control as people, to the contrary we have actually handed more power to this dreadful Tory goverment. That is why I can't get my head around Lexit voters' motivations. How is the most right wing Tory government in many years ever going to negotiate anything other than a deal which fits with their right wing principles?

What they need to do is reintroduce blue covered passports. We carry on as before. Job done.

That really might work.

I voted remain but I don't think I was right to vote that way because I am more intelligent/more knowledgeable/more correct than any leave voter. I'll be the first to hold my hands up and admit that I don't know enough about the EU to understand the issues fully enough to vote in an informed way. What I did do though, was concede that I didn't know enough and so looked to see what the experts on EU membership had to say. Hence my vote.

This issue should never have been put in our hands.

mango or surfer, instead of being outraged about slurs on your intelligence, how about you answer the question about what you think UKIP can deliver in the event this government fails to deliver your Brexit vision.

The first rule of Brexit Club is not to talk about what Brexit might be able to deliver and how this might be achieved. The second rule of Brexit Club is not to talk about what Brexit might be able to deliver and how this might be achieved.

When we ask questions like, 'how do you define when brexit is 'good enough', no one comes up with answers.

We were told that UKIP didn't have a racist manifesto, but undoubtedly individual UKIP members most certainly do.

To which the Leave posters on here are also silent.