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Brexit

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to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

658 replies

MenMust · 29/08/2016 20:27

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

OP posts:
Dozer · 31/08/2016 15:00

From the bbc story today it seems like the PM agrees with OP and has a similar "must be positive" public line!

Remainers will somehow be responsible for problems if they don't smile and say all's well, or at least shut up.

Orwellian!

Mind you, I am uncomfortable with certain things that a majority of UK voters might want being "off the table" in exit/trade negotiations because "they" (the EC and EU member states) won't let us and/or will seek to punish us.

Muddle2000 · 31/08/2016 15:11

I agree that there is a great deal about the EU that needs reforming and some of the Leavers insights were justified.
BUT op is going on historical data which is not valid now. The thing is if
we were such a great nation why did we join the EU in the first place and why did we stay so long eh?
Switzerland did not become a full member as their banking laws eg secrecy allowed them to do very well, thank you. Likewise Norway had oil (though not so much now)
Europe never ever wanted another war again and there were economic
threats coming from the East starting with Japan. Eastern people can
produce goods cheaper as for a start they work all hours this being their
culture. Paid holidays???
We HAD to create a European trading block. Then of course people liked the cheap imports and so the saga goes on.

The EU has shaped thus: Germany gets the car industry , domestic appliances.
GB the financial services and the 2 more or less greatest airports
S Europe the food and drink industry as well tourism
Costs : it is just so much cheaper and easier to trade with folk near you.
If a Leaver could suggest how we could do all of the above then I would be delighted.

Flugelpip · 31/08/2016 15:16

We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few!

I'll give them a call and see if they have any ideas.

Dozer · 31/08/2016 15:29

There must be some relevant quotes from those dead notables, especially from the Bard!

chilipepper20 · 31/08/2016 15:34

Good point about housing being too expensive. However, even with free housing, UK production-line workers couldn't afford all the other things they expect (utilities, food, stuff like that) on the sterling equivalent of Indian or Far Eastern wages. And of course they would be way below the tax and NI thresholds, so bang go the tax receipts that pay for free school and further education, free health care, and infrastructure.

Yes, but housing and rent have knock on effects of pushing other costs up. Also, there are huge advantages to being in the UK over india. You wouldn't need to depress wages down to indian levels to make us competitive. But the current policy of having an economy based on house prices exacerbates the problem incredibly, and only helps a handful of people.

ToxicLadybird · 31/08/2016 15:55

There must be some relevant quotes from those dead notables, especially from the Bard!

From the Othello: "But this denoted a foregone conclusion."

Or Henry VIII: "Farewell, a long farewell to all my greatness."

Henry V: "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more/lOr close the wall up with our English dead."

Peregrina · 31/08/2016 15:59

In my view knowing our weaknesses gives us strength.
I agree here and had David Cameron allowed the Leave side to prepare a case, it would have been picked and chewed over, and he could have made his own case stronger.

smallfox2002 · 31/08/2016 16:01

Dispute not with her, she is a lunatic. Richard III

Dozer · 31/08/2016 16:03

Oh yes, and King Henry VIIIth would surely have been a Brexiteer!

"Screw our courage to the sticking place".

Somehow don't think T May will wish to be like Lady McBeth!

Helmetbymidnight · 31/08/2016 16:51

"If it were done, twere well it were down quickly" ?!?!

GloriaGaynor · 31/08/2016 16:51

'The worst is not so long so long as we can say 'this is the worst'.' Edgar, King Lear

Peregrina · 31/08/2016 17:44

"Thus the whirligig of time brings in his revenges". Taming of the Shrew
"The common curse of mankind, - folly and ignorance". Troilus and Cressida. Particularly apt.

birdsdestiny · 31/08/2016 17:54

You see the thing is op, we don't agree with you. You can't force us to think like you, thats not going to happen. This is one of the many really weird things about brexit support. When there is a general election, those who vote conservative don't say to Labour voters you must think as we do, they accept that they won but that others disagreed with them. So carry on with your plans, but don't ask us to like them. We don't agree with you. Clear enough?

ManonLescaut · 31/08/2016 17:58

Switzerland did not become a full member as their banking laws eg secrecy allowed them to do very well, thank you

Switzerland does well without the EU, but it is disadvantaged economically by the fact that its financial services aren't in the single market.

A Swiss government report comments:

"With no legal certainty on EU market access, the cross-border activities of Swiss banks are in a (legally) grey area, i.e. Swiss financial intermediaries can only expand their EU business by way of subsidiaries in the EU, which means that Switzerland loses out in terms of jobs, value creation and tax receipts."

The subsidiaries incur extra costs and they can't work economies of scale. They are also limited in what financial products they can sell.

I mention this only to highlight the drawbacks to incomplete single market access.

whatwouldrondo · 31/08/2016 17:59

mistigri I agree we are already trading with China, especially the high tech and luxury goods sectors. However what the OPs plan needs is for us to expand our trade with China exponentially if it is going to come near to the level of profitable trade with the EU that is put at risk by Brexit . Whereas China has a strategy, including the one they have used for centuries of buying in western technology so that they can learn from it and develop their own, and developing their own capabilities in craft, design and brand management to meet the increasingly sophisticated needs of their consumers ( arising from a cultural context UK companies are particularly bad at understanding) I have yet to hear what strategy can be employed to improve our competitiveness.

A good plan is based on sound analysis of the political and economic environment and the opportunities and threats, your source of competitive advantage and the competitive threats you face, in order to arrive at a sound strategy for best exploiting those markets. OPs verbal diarrhoea "plan" might just be a skeleton on which you could develop an actual plan by iteratively developing it based on reality, as strategic planners do. It isn't negative to raise issues based on reality. However when anyone has exposed it to reality, I have raised two issues, the brain drain and an effective China strategy to exploit the opportunities and counter the threats, there is silence..........

So no I can't agree on something that can't stand a reality test......

53rdAndBird · 31/08/2016 18:00

So as of this afternoon, it looks like The Plan includes controls on immigration from the EU. Bye-bye single market, then...

Figmentofmyimagination · 31/08/2016 18:07

It is very sad - and on the same day that we learn from the Joseph Rowntree research that the brexit victory was swung by the dispossessed and the left behind.

No wonder nobody has any strategies as to how best to move forward. How can this have been allowed to happen?

53rdAndBird · 31/08/2016 18:17

All those MN Leave voters who said immigration wasn't even an important issue to them - now would be a really, really good time to write to your MP and let them know that.

Helmetbymidnight · 31/08/2016 18:27

You see the thing is op, we don't agree with you.

It's not only that though. It's that the OP's grand plan of positive thinking has completely failed to address any of the issues that lie ahead. What is the big Brexit idea for freedom of movement/single market/The GoodFriday agreement/Scotland, etc, etc?

I still have no idea because it's just a load of meaningless twaddle. Still, several posters liked it, which is nice (weird)

"From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean."???

Flugelpip · 31/08/2016 19:26

It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.

I'm sorry, I'm too annoyed to read the whole thread after reading the OP's screed but this is exactly the opposite of the truth. It is NOT in the EU's interests to give the UK a good deal. It IS in their interests to show the 27 remaining member states that life in the EU is much better than outside it. For countries such as Norway or Switzerland who have never been members, there can be a benign and mutually beneficial arrangement. For the UK, there will be an extremely firm but demonstrably fair settlement that will benefit the EU FAR more than it benefits the UK, and there will be nothing the UK government can do about it. The UK is in a horribly weak position and remembering the discovery of penicillin is not exactly relevant. Brexiteers will not get what they wanted, and neither will Remainers. That's the reality of the situation.

The UK is currently in the position of a man aiming a shotgun loaded for bear at his feet, in preparation for running a marathon. The referendum loaded the gun. Let's at least consider not pulling the trigger.

twofingerstoGideon · 31/08/2016 19:32

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."
Wm Shakespeare

PattyPenguin · 31/08/2016 20:00

To add to ManonLescaut's point above, because Switzerland doesn't have passporting rights into the EU, its banks have a network of branches and subsidiaries in London. The EU’s rules enable these Swiss (and other non-EU) banks to provide investment banking and wealth management services across the Union through their presence in the UK. Once the UK loses passporting rights after Brexit, these Swiss banks will need to move their branches and subsidiaries out of London into an EU jurisdiction.

Peregrina · 31/08/2016 21:41

these Swiss banks will need to move their branches and subsidiaries out of London into an EU jurisdiction. And don't let anyone kid themselves that the Swiss will feel sorry for us and keep their branches here. They will do what is best for Switzerland.

Helmetbymidnight · 31/08/2016 22:04

I think the vast majority of brexitters just think fuck financial services though, don't they? 'They all had it coming'.

Fuck them, fuck their contribution to the economy, fuck the tax they pay.

Kaija · 31/08/2016 22:14

Yes. Lots of talk about where our contribution to EU goes, but complete cluelessness about where the money comes from in the first place.