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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

658 replies

MenMust · 29/08/2016 20:27

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

OP posts:
Mistigri · 02/09/2016 13:45

Surely any pre-referendum forecasts were based on Cameron's stated intention to trigger A50 on 24th June in the event of a "leave" vote?

As it is, I don't really understand this brexit boom stuff. It's nonsense isn't it? We haven't brexited; we are, at minimum, years away from actually leaving the EU. At this point, nothing has changed except that sterling has had a couple of bad months.

There have been some impacts of course, mainly because inward investment and large purchases like property require some degree of certainty, but this has been offset by a currency devaluation which has, as you would expect, helped exporters. (Lots of good news in our management meetings right now! Budgets being exceeded and everyone happily working out how they will spend their bonuses).

Dapplegrey2 · 02/09/2016 13:56

Kaija - not sure if your comment was supposed to be sarcastic or not.

So there we go - some newspapers say one thing and some say the opposite.
Robert Kilroy Silk (I think it was him) once said he'd learned from his show that there were three subjects about which compromise between the two sides was impossible.

  1. Hunting
  2. Abortion
  3. Israel v Palestine.

It seems the EU referendum is the fourth.

tiggytape · 02/09/2016 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mistigri · 02/09/2016 14:25

If anything, Cameron's departure and failure to invoke Article 50 has added much more to this uncertainty than was ever predicted and it has extended our period of limbo because we are no nearer to negotiating a deal now than before. Therefore instability is worse right now than was anticipated when predictions were made about what would happen if leave won.

That might be true in parts of financial services especially where market access depends on passporting, but do you really think that's true across the economy as a whole?

Admittedly I'm not UK based, so this is a selective viewpoint based in the fact that I work for a FTSE manufacturing company and spent most of August back on the mother ship. But tbh hardly anyone is talking about brexit anymore: I was at a festival recently and most people seemed somewhat resigned to it, but had consigned it to the category of "bad things that might happen in the very distant future but don't really affect me right now". At work, it's business as usual except that our exports are worth 10% more in sterling terms and any new UK investment is likely to be much more carefully scrutinised. But even that isn't a big change, because already most investment is overseas: partly because of the need to be close to your end markets and partly because it's so difficult to recruit qualified people in the UK.

We still don't have a lot of data on which to work, and certainly in the fullness of time, a fall in inward investment, higher inflation and a housing market slowdown will start to have an impact, but at the moment, out in the real world, it does not seem to me that brexit is having a major impact on spending decisions at the consumer level.

Corcory · 02/09/2016 15:05

Peregrina -that's exactly what I said on another thread about investing in training in the NHS for Docs. and Nurses. I feel that applies to lots of other areas as well and we should be ensuring that much more emphasis should be put on apprenticeships and other valuable training for home grown youngsters and returners etc.

ManonLescaut · 02/09/2016 15:06

In property for example, things were tailing off before the vote - not because leave were expected to win but because of stamp duty changes and buy-to-let changes that are still having an impact

There was a rush to complete before the new stamp duty changes in April, however estate agents and surveyors report a softer demand for both buy and sell since Brexit (buyer demand falling to an eight-year low according to the RICS). House prices are supposed to have increased slightly, but I know two people whose buyers have pulled out due to Brexit and they are relisting slightly lower.

My BIL owns several franchises in London and the home counties of one of the big 4 estate agents and he confirms a fall in interest on both sides.

ManonLescaut · 02/09/2016 15:07

Which he's certain is Brexit related as they've been doing good business for a long time.

Peregrina · 02/09/2016 15:40

Yes, Corcory We could and should make the effort to train up more health professionals, but I am not yet persuaded that the Government has the will to do this, being just about to stop nursing bursaries and make them apply for student grants. There was some blather from one of the government spokesmen about supporting young people, blithely ignorant of the fact that nursing students tend to be older people with existing family commitments, so have less flexibility than younger people.

As for Apprenticeships - yes, but again I see no real appetite to provide good quality apprenticeships, just the usual empty, waffley talk.

ToxicLadybird · 02/09/2016 16:31

How will leaving the EU affect your lives?
Your angst fuelled posts suggest you fear serious harm.

What awful things await you personally once we leave the EU?
I'm assuming you've made a list?

I live in another EU country. I'm now disabled and my financial support comes directly from the UK under EU rules. I expect this will stop. It's already dropped by almost 20%.

My DD has just started her university studies which are free because of EU rules. Non EU students pay huge amounts. Every year students have their eligibility reassessed. I expect once we leave she'll no longer be eligible.

My grandchildren will lose the right to live and work in the UK.

Will I keep my right to live here? Will I still have free access to health care? I can't take out health care insurance because of my disability.

Will I still be able to use my driving licence? How about my blue badge?

I am terrified for my children's future. Everything we rely on, that you get to take for granted, is now up for negotiation.

BengalCatMum · 02/09/2016 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bearbehind · 02/09/2016 19:44

Another 'stick my fingers in my ears and shout la la la' Leaver then *bengal? Hmm

Perfect for intelligent, reasoned discussion.

No one can be bothered to ask you questions you clearly can't answer if you think the OP is sensible.

smallfox2002 · 02/09/2016 19:52

Agree with what Bengal? Some platitudes?

Analysis not needed.

But then if you'd actually analysed the situation you wouldn't have voted leave.

Mistigri · 02/09/2016 20:12

I'm always faintly astonished on these threads at how satisfied leave voters seem to be with the current situation ie the UK still in the EU (with no one sure how, when or even if we are actually going to leave), and the Telegraph and the Express merrily pretending to their readers that we are already out.

Peregrina · 02/09/2016 20:14

Pretending that we are already out and that the doom mongering Remainers were wrong. Well, we are not out and we won't know until we are out.

And no, we won't get the Empire back, however much the Tory right wing wants that to be so.

Kaija · 02/09/2016 20:42

Yes, mistigri. If Theresa May is wise she'll chuck them some blue passports, let them weigh their plums in pounds and ounces and otherwise carry on as normal.

MenMust · 02/09/2016 21:50

Thank you BengalCatMum

No one can be bothered to ask you questions you clearly can't answer if you think the OP is sensible

Pathetic. More insults and put downs. I apologise that my post was not upto doctorate thesis standards. Maybe "plan" was not the correct word, so am sorry for that. "Thoughts on the subject" may have sound better, I dont know. However, I think I wrote down relevant points worthy of consideration and discussion. I dont think I have deserved the rudeness that I have been subjected to. Democratic speech is not about being abusive.

OP posts:
Kaija · 02/09/2016 22:19

MenMust, yesterday you wrote about the effects of being in the EU on people's lives as a reason for voting leave.

Several of us asked what effects being in the EU was having on your life.

Are you ready to talk about this yet?

BeenThereDoneThatForgotten · 02/09/2016 22:34

I don't think people have been rude. they are just hugely frustrated with the woolly platitudes and "it will all.be OK" attitude.

BeenThereDoneThatForgotten · 02/09/2016 22:41

Being in the EU has had a huge positive effect on my life and leaving it, well I can't say anything a bout the negative effect as no-one, not even Teresa May, can say a word about what will happen. but I have sleepless nights about it. I have made huge life decisions based on being an EU member. I am furious that people who seemingly did not bother to do any research can now supposedly dictate my future and fuck up my finances. And I will not talk positively and I will not shut up.

Peregrina · 02/09/2016 22:49

I don't understand the "it'll all be OK," attitude when you read ToxicLadybird's post, and just not understand how worried sick she is. She can't be the only one in this sort of situation. The politicians need to start telling us what sort of answers they will seek to these sorts of situations.

whatwouldrondo · 02/09/2016 23:51

Op elsewhere on the referendum threads there are three pages of deleted vitriol from Bengalcatmum and she was banned, at least temporarily. Not something I have ever seen on Mumsnet before.

It is usual on Mumsnet that when you start a post that you expect debate and stick around to defend it and engage in the debate. I have raised several issues with your post, no response. I suppose that is better than three pages of vitriol but I really would like to hear your response to exposing your thoughts to some real issues. Even just one, how do you propose all the young voters who voted remain and prevent a brain drain......

OrsonWellsHat · 03/09/2016 00:28

I hope Bengal isn't on the Wine tonight Wink

SwedishEdith · 03/09/2016 00:38

Just remembered that thread, how weird! Tres bizarre.

Bearbehind · 03/09/2016 06:02

menmust, it is not 'pathetic' to expect you, or those who say 'great OP' to defend your 'plan' or even your 'thoughts'

It is incredibly pathetic that you're not prepared to discuss anything you listed or explain how you think any of it might actually be possible in practice.

As others have said, can you start by giving an example, just a single one will do, of people's lives beginning adversely affected by being in the EU, and, more importantly, how that will change by leaving.

TheForeignOffice · 03/09/2016 07:34

BeenThereDoneThatForgotten: I have lived and worked in several EU countries. I am seriously worried about the effect the Brexit may have on my pensions

What exactly are you concerned about?

I'm in a similar position, and barring the effects of capital depreciation in GBP denominated funds and bond yield reduction...I'm very thankful to have a large proportion of pension assets outside UK and in non-GBP!

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