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Brexit

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to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

658 replies

MenMust · 29/08/2016 20:27

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

OP posts:
Dapplegrey2 · 02/09/2016 10:37

" In any case it is not possible to "accept" it when we don't yet know what it is that we are accepting."
Kaija - well exactly. Apart from a few Greek gods no one has been able to predict the future. I would be interested to save some of these threads and have a look in two then five years time and see which predictions from both sides have come true.
There's plenty in the D Telegraph today about positive aspects of Brexit - it would be good if some of the writers could come on here and give their views, but then again they've probably got other things to do than sit on Mumsnet all day long.

IAmNotTheMessiah · 02/09/2016 10:38

I know, I just thought that it should be pointed out that she was asked a question, and then deflected by turning it back on people. The other people then responded, but she can't actually find a single thing to complain about, so she's just pretending it didn't happen.

Or she'll come back telling us how busy and important her life is that she can't find time to respond on an internet forum to what should be a simple question (even though she can find time to try and have a dig at others)...

Bearbehind · 02/09/2016 10:39

What kind of things dapple?

Can we have some links/ quotes?

Kaija · 02/09/2016 10:39

Why don't you post a link dapple grey and we can discuss it.

Mistigri · 02/09/2016 10:42

misti I completely agree that you shouldn't have to think about things like this as we should never have ended up in this situation but wouldn't you also be forced to return to the UK if it were no longer part of the EU if it is the case your mother would have to?

No, I have been here a long time and have two children with local citizenship.

53rdAndBird · 02/09/2016 10:44

I don't think the OP did start the thread to have a constructive discussion, WrongTrouser. She hasn't engaged with any of the points people raised in disagreement, no matter whether people were insulting or not.

It is not reasonable to expect one side of an argument to stick to the core topic whilst they are being insulted.

Ha, really? I'm happy to stick to the core topics, despite various people on this thread accusing Remain voters of moaning, whining, being boring, doomsaying, being "spiteful, spoilt children" and deliberately trying to sabotage the country.

So: financial implications of leaving the Single Market? Northern Ireland? University funding? Lack of clear direction from the government? Scotland? Status of the financial sector outside the EU? Can we talk about any of these things? Or are we just supposed to wave little flag emojis and not say anything negative lest someone feel patronised?

Dapplegrey2 · 02/09/2016 10:46

Best thing probably is to go onto the D Telegraph website then click on the EU referendum section.

Kaija · 02/09/2016 10:49

Thanks for the tip, dapple grey. Happy to provide a reading list for you too if you're interested.

53rdAndBird · 02/09/2016 10:52

Dapple, the only thing I can see on there is a piece about manufacturing expanding due to the falling value of the pound. Is that what you meant? If not, can you at least give the author and/or title of the article(s) you're talking about?

Fawful · 02/09/2016 10:56

Bear is looking v closely at value for money and wants people to spend money in the local economy before they get anything back. How universal is that, Bear, do you also agree with a US style system for health, where you are only treated if you have money, and can die if you haven't? I hope you're on the right side of the fence?

Dapplegrey2 · 02/09/2016 11:06

Comment: Brexit Britain has a bright future ahead
TELEGRAPH VIEW

Comment: It's time for the Brexit bears to calm down
ALLISTER HEATH

Here are a couple. I've got to go out now but I'll look for some more later.

Bearbehind · 02/09/2016 11:08

I'm not actually fawful my reservations are not purely monetary based, they are socially based too.

I do disagree with moving to any country if it is just to rely on their benefit/ medical system.

If you do so to be near family, you want to do so and your intention is to support yourself that that's quite different.

53rdAndBird · 02/09/2016 11:22

Dapple, both of those are about the rise in manufacturing, due to the lowered value of the pound. They're not wrong as such but that's not the same as saying Britain has a bright future, because currency dropping in value has a lot of negative effects on the economy, too. Manufacturing goes up because it's cheaper for other countries to buy our exports. But it's more expensive for us to buy imports, and that makes it more expensive for us to buy lots of the everyday things we need, which means living costs get more expensive.

It's also a fudge to say "Remainers predicted the economy would suffer, but it hasn't so HA!".

Partly because the Bank of England did some heavyweight damage control right after the vote to stabilise things - that's not the same as "nothing bad happened", that's "we put a tourniquet on it for now."

But also because the economic predictions were mainly based on Britain leaving the EU. We haven't left yet. Most people expected that Cameron would invoke Article 50 right after the vote was in - we haven't even done that yet. We currently still have all the economic benefits of being in the EU. So when people said, eg, "the economy will suffer because if we leave the EU we'll lose London's financial sector", it's not much of a reply to say "well the City's still here so that was wrong!"

whatwouldrondo · 02/09/2016 11:26

Dapple I see your Telegraph articles and raise you a Guardian one www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/02/theresa-may-bleak-future-outside-single-market-eu-trade?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Neither perspective is particularly surprising

What I take from this is that a lower pound has stimulated demand, as it does (but will also increase prices and inflation as the cost of imports come through) . Nothing there to point to a bright new Brexit future, it is a side effect of the rest of the world thinking the opposite.....

There are a lot of serious economic risks in Theresa May's Brexit strategy.......

PattyPenguin · 02/09/2016 11:31

Dapplegrey's links.

"Brexit Britain has a bright future ahead"

  1. Manufacturing has had its biggest monthly increase for 25 years. Does admit this is probably because the pound has fallen in value. Doesn't mention that imports, including raw materials and components for the manufacturing sector, are therefore more expensive. Doesn't mention that manufacturing is only 13% of the UK economy.
  2. The pound has regained a teensy bit of its lost value.
  3. Consumer confidence is up.

That's it. Our future is bright because a tad more than one tenth of the economy is doing better, and households are apparently full of (quite possibly misplaced) optimism.

I am not convinced.

Peregrina · 02/09/2016 11:48

Let's try to be positive. The sort of argument I would like to see the Leave side put forward would run like this "Curbing EU immigration is our priority, but we know that the NHS is reliant on EU citizens. Medical, nursing and midwifery courses could all fill their places twice over with good quality applicants, so let us train more British citizens. We will ask the Government to increase the training places. As a first step, we will ask them to write to each University/hospital providing training and ask what resources and finances they would need to make a substantial increase in the number of places offered".

If a Leave voter made a proposal like that, I would say, "good idea". That would be a much more constructive approach than 'You lost, get over it." Stifling free speech isn't democracy, it's step on the way to dictatorship.

The Government is extremely unlikely to implement the above proposal, going by past form. They will fall back on the previous behaviour of shoring up the NHS with people from outside the EU, so won't be curbing immigration.

Fawful · 02/09/2016 11:55

(Bear It's not what Mistigri's mum would be doing though, she'd move to be closer to her daughter because that is what is sometimes necessary with dementia (patients might forget to eat or overdose on their medicines if they live by themselves and have memory losses), not to access benefits or medical care. Any medical care she might have to use would just be a side-effect, sad and a shame, but surely better socially than to have her in an institution in the uk.)
I guess I'm derailing the thread so better stop.)

ManonLescaut · 02/09/2016 11:57

Brexit has cost Ford and General Motors $100s of millions this year due to the Sterling's fall. Ford has forecast Brexit to cost them $1billion over 2 years - combination of £ devaluation and hit to sales.

The MoD also have a black hole of £700 million - military equipment is priced in dollars.

prettybird · 02/09/2016 11:57

Any time anyone has talked about the negative impacts that they've directly observed or are concerned about as a result of the Brexit vote (internships withdrawn, decline in EU students coming that is impacting on university funding, exclusion from research projects/applications, impact on elderly relatives), they're either told that they're making it up/they're not happening/concerns are minimised. Hmm

These are valid concerns. I'm genuinely not seeing anything positive. I'm seeing a lot of wishful thinking - that we can retain financial passporting and access to the free market without the other required side of the equation, freedom of movement.

tiggytape · 02/09/2016 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Petronius16 · 02/09/2016 12:23

Peregrina, spot on, yes that's what I mean by a plan.

As a Eurosceptic Remainer I question whether our politicians are up to the task.

Seventeen of the UK railway companies are State owned. Owned by the States of Germany, France, Holland and China. Deutsche Bahn admitted last year they used profits from their UK companies to subsidise their system.

Chris Grayling, a leading Brexiter, (cough) has just given £20million to Southern Railway part owned by the French State railway.

Somehow that doesn't give me a lot of confidence (as with the Amazon example) that our leaders are particularly good at doing deals with other countries.

Peregrina · 02/09/2016 12:32

Going off topic here, but it mystifies me why UK state ownership is a BAD THING, but having our assets owned by other states is a GOOD THING.

Petronius16 · 02/09/2016 12:41

Going off topic here, but it mystifies me why UK state ownership is a BAD THING, but having our assets owned by other states is a GOOD THING.

Me too, though Govia who run Southern Rail have just posted £100million profit, so they must be doing something right. [wink}

Yes, I'm off topic as well.

BeenThereDoneThatForgotten · 02/09/2016 12:52

I have lived and worked in several EU countries. I am seriously worried about the effect the Brexit may have on my pensions.

missmoon · 02/09/2016 13:01

BeenThere I have the same problem. I'm hoping any deal will honour existing pension obligations, and allow me to move my European pensions to the UK.