to agree with the positive Brexit plan below?!

[MenMust]

Having watched a documentary recently about the making of the London Olympics 2012 Opening Ceremony, I was reminded of the sheer skill, innovation and creativity possessed by this nation. This left no doubt in my mind that the UK is completely capable of making a huge success outside the EU.
The first thing the people of the UK need to do is to focus on positive outcomes and opportunities created by the historic decision to leave the EU. Everyone, including those who voted to remain, need to put aside all negativity and differences and anger. Whether you voted to exit or not, it is now going to happen and so all thoughts of doom and disaster are wasted energy and need to be put aside. Pessimism is a self-fulfilling prophesy and if you concentrate on what you think are the negative consequences of Brexit, you will drag the UK down.
Of course there is a risk to exiting the EU. However, there was always a risk to staying in the EU as it is a changing entity. A vote to remain was not a vote for the status quo. The UK will face challenges as it has always done and there will be those who lose out because of Brexit but there will also be those who gain. The EU however also faces an uncertain future. The Euro is in trouble and requires fiscal and budgetary union for any chance of survival. The EU’s economic performance has been poor and its share of world GDP is set to fall. It has failed to keep up with 21st Century globalisation and emerging markets. Further integration is not popular. The EU needs to change radically if it is to survive.
Now the UK has a new PM, Theresa May in place as well as a new Cabinet, the Government needs to appoint the best advisors and negotiators in the land who can help secure the UK the best deal with the EU. The Government should take its time to work out what the best outcome is for the UK before declaring article 50. The UK is in a good position to secure a favourable deal with the EU. We are the biggest importer within the EU and in fact import more from the EU than the USA. It is in the EU’s interest to work with us rather than against us.
The Government needs to ensure that our fishing industry regains rights of fishing areas that it has lost previously under the EU Common Fisheries Policy. EU laws that have had the effect of closing down fishing businesses and communities need to be reviewed.
It is important to remember that, although we have voted to leave the EU, we are still friends with our European neighbours and will continue to maintain a close relationship with them and support them in whatever way we can.
We should now open up to the rest of the world.
Our Government should secure and enhance friendships and relationships with other countries. They need to look at trading partnerships and free trade agreements (FTAs) with all countries we wish to trade with. Australia has already announced it wishes to look at trade deals with the UK. China and India are set to be the future trading powers so we need to start discussions with them. We could possibly forge a link with NAFTA (North American free trade bloc). We should look at our relationship with the Commonwealth and foster trade and agreements with our Commonwealth partners. The EU is the only trading bloc in the world that requires such stringent conditions on its members and this has stifled competition and productivity over a number of years rather than promoting it. We are the sixth largest economy in the world and so other countries will want to do business with us.
Our Government should ease its focus on achieving a balanced budget by 2020. Reducing our debt is still important but should now be done over a longer period and the Government should spend more money on capital projects to help counteract the slowing of growth. It should also look at reducing the tax burden further.
Our police and legal system should stamp down and eradicate racism and racist attacks on our fellow migrants as this is not acceptable. The UK is still a society that welcomes people of all ethnicities, cultures, religions and countries. Racism was not what Brexit was about.
The Government needs to ensure that all project funding commitments by the EU shall be stuck to until we have left the EU. Also, it should ensure that UK organisations and individuals are not discriminated by the EU leading up to our exit.
Once we leave the EU, the Government should commit to funding existing projects previously funded by the EU for at least another three years until it has a department or system in place to make decisions about continuing or ending project funding.
The amount that the UK paid towards the EU budget should be used for capital investment projects within the UK and also for improving and supporting the NHS. The capital projects to improve our infrastructure such as roads will help boost aggregate demand in the UK and help counteract any negative effects on GDP of leaving the EU. The Government should spend money to improve areas of our country that have been neglected or just need fixing.
UK exports will be cheaper due to the reduced value of Sterling. This is an opportunity to promote and increase what we sell to the rest of the world. We must take advantage of this.
UK imports will be more expensive due to the reduced value of Sterling and possible import tariffs. The Government could provide tax breaks to ease the burden on companies that import.
We should focus on buying British goods and supporting our businesses.
We have many of the greatest universities in the world and the Government should invest more via research grants to help boost our universities success even more.
The City of London has great financial institutions and London is one of the world’s top financial centres. It is renowned for its flexibility, resourcefulness, connections, highly skilled workforce, experience. The City with the support of the Government should ensure that it does everything so that it remains one of, if not the most attractive centre for finance in the world.
Finally, we, the UK need to stop underestimating what our country can achieve. Our history has shown what we can do. We still do and will continue to do. We were the pioneers of the industrial revolution. We invented the train, the telephone, the computer, the internet for example. We discovered penicillin, DNA, the laws of gravity. We have Shakepeare, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Charles Darwin, Stephen Hawking, The Beatles, Florence Nightingale, just to name a few! Football, rugby, cricket all came from our country. Our reach and influence is global. We are not a great empire anymore and we have no desire to be but our systems of politics, law, finance are duplicated around the world. So let’s not underestimate ourselves. I have great confidence in our younger generation to continue what previous generations have done. They are bright, intelligent, skilled, energetic, creative. They and older generations have the ability to make a success of our exit from the EU. We all just need to believe in ourselves and remain calm and confident.
We have been in the EU for 43 years, not really a long time in the scheme of things.
So let’s not be afraid and let us take this challenge on and show what we can do!

I realise it's an unknown at the moment but there's no indication that your mother couldn't move to the EU misti if you intend to support her- it's not as if the borders are going to permanently close.

I guess I'm struggling with the concept of moving a relative out of their home country to a foreign country when they are at the point of needing care- surely if your mother wanted to live where you do she would do so before it became a necessity?

The majority of the remain voters I know, although initially upset at the referendum result, have accepted it

Your template for a virtuous Remainer is to accept the result: ie put up and shut up.

And if you do not personally want them to keep quiet (you certainly want them to stop evaluating Leave voters), there are plenty that do: the demands for Remoaners to stop moaning are widespread and relentless.

I'll amend WrongTrousers statement to accurately reflect my experience since the Referedum.

"Bit of an exaggeration there. The majority* All of the remain voters I know, although initially upset at the referendum result, are increasingly angry about it and have n*ot accepted it and have not acknowledged there are positives to leaving the EU. I know none who have become un "engaged", because they know how serious the impact on our and our children's lives will be"

Maybe the difference is that I live in Scotland and don't know a single Leave voter (met one at a party though, who've as voting Leave because her daughter lived in Kent and the refugees there were clogging up the hospitals and were Angela Merkel's fault ).

Was talking to a lady on Wednesday - first time I'd met her but I'd just taken her dd's details to register at the local sports club I'm involved with and we got chatting while the kids were outside training. She mentioned she worked in university funding and planning, so out of interest, I asked if she'd seen an impact yet. Boy did I get an earful

No idea how she'd voted in the Indyref (friendship not developed enough yet ) but I'm 100% sure she'd be voting Yes next time if that meant, even if EU membership couldn't be guaranteed straight away, that we would retain full EEA access.

Erasmus and full freedom of movement were significant parts of her diatribe. Reductions in foreign students that have already happened in the 2016/17 intake (she's also involved with admissions), the damage to research planning and the impact on university funds also featured.

I realise it's an unknown at the moment but there's no indication that your mother couldn't move to the EU misti if you intend to support her- it's not as if the borders are going to permanently close.

As local immigration law stands, if she ceases to be an EU citizen, she will lose the right to join us here.

I don't know any Remsin voters who've just accepted it.

There's nothing to accept for starters.

We have resigned ourselves to the fact that things are going to change and the fact no bugger has got a clue how.

I guess I'm struggling with the concept of moving a relative out of their home country to a foreign country when they are at the point of needing care- surely if your mother wanted to live where you do she would do so before it became a necessity?

I would struggle with it too, and of course it would be a last resort. But would you want to leave an elderly parent with, say, dementia to the vagaries of the UK care system?

A close friend cares for her German mother here; I'm sure it's not what either would want in an ideal world, but her mother is paraplegic following a severe stroke and needs care 24/7.

I am currently helping my aged aunt (my uncle died 2 years ago) to find a retirement village in the UK. She has got to the point that she needs a lot of care. She's very wealthy so she can pay for it all herself.

But she categorically refused to move from her home before it was absolutely necessary, and has struggled to retain as much independence as possible for as long as possible. I think this is fairly typical of old people - and I'm sure I'd feel the same.

Tbh misti, if I felt the need to care for a relative in a similar situation I'd move back to the UK rather than even considering moving them to a foreign country just because I choose to live in that country.

If they don't want to move there whilst in good health why would they want to be there when ill and vulnerable?

Having said that, if all parties were happy with that being an option and if Brexit means it no longer is, I see why you are concerned,

This is a very real problem, that many of the voters, and certainly the Conservative Party, gave very little thought or respect to how the next generation of working people think and feel, particularly the 50% of them who have had to work academically harder than any generation before them at school and then university to equip themselves for an economy that the government said needed their skills, especially in STEM ( and carry debt as a result). They are struggling anyway to replicate the living standards of previous generations, few can for instance afford to buy their own homes without parental help. One thing they did appreciate was the value of the EU, the right to study and work in 27 other countries, which many had already taken advantage of, and the funding that flowed to research and universities. This is a generation who have travelled as none before, almost every one of the 50% who attend universities undertake some form of extended overseas travel, many graduate employers will now accommodate that, so they are more globally aware and certainly more tolerant than any generation before. This post Brexit Britain with talk of going back to weird passport covers and weights and measures and returning to an imperialist economic strategy is not a country they feel a part of. I have yet to speak to one under 30 who does not think thatvBrexit will make their lives worse and I do know some of the small proportion who voted Leave. Now the implications are becoming clearer they regret that decision.

You can get some sense of that here m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=642444842524195

You can also see it in the somewhat naive support of the minority flocking to Corbyn but they have nobody else speaking to their hopes for greater equality and tolerance.

Do the Conservatives not see this is where the vote against them is developing, that courting a generation who quite frankly will be dead or past caring in ten years time is not a good strategy.....

I'm sure we are far from unusual Manon. My ILs report that almost all the remain voters in their social circle have children living and working in the EU. In my immediate family, of the six members of my generation, four have moved abroad for work.

You struggle with that even if it's a mum moving so that her daughter can look after her Bear? It's the only decent thing to do - often in life we have to make efforts and pay for the only decent thing to do...
You would uproot your family to go back to live with your mum? I don't think you would.

I'd move back to the UK rather than even considering moving them to a foreign country just because I choose to live in that country.

Really? With adolescent children approaching exams who've never had an English medium education? I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. I'm not going to give up my job and make five of us dependant on the UK tax payer.

bird I understand what you are saying and I agree that this is not a constructive line of discussion.

However the OP started a thread to have a constructive discussion and has been patronised and had her intelligence questioned. It is not reasonable to expect one side of an argument to stick to the core topic whilst they are being insulted.

And if you do not personally want them to keep quiet (you certainly want them to stop evaluating Leave voters),

No, that's not true. Analysis and evaluation to understand people's position is positive. Insulting people is negative.

It's quite a fast moving thread at the minute and I am aware that what one remainer says does not reflect on all, but the OP has been personally insulted on this thread and one pp has said that she feels contempt for all leave voters.

The way to have a more constructive discussion about the actual issues is to avoid insulting people.

If they don't want to move there whilst in good health why would they want to be there when ill and vulnerable?

Because they want to be near their family. So the daughter can provide care and support.

A good friend of mine's mother is in the process of moving to Australia to be near her daughter due to failing eyesight. My friend is a professor of archeology specialising in aboriginal issues and is married to an Australian who is also an aboriginal archeologist. They cannot therefore relocate here, and her mother likes the climate in Australia and wants to be with her daughter.

My own grandmother moved from the country to be near my mother when she got old. It's fairly common.

But it's ok to remove your mum from everything she's ever known (assuming she's only ever lived here)?

I know there's no ideal solution in these circumstances but your mother staying in the uk doesn't sound like the worst possible outcome to me unless she actually wants to move to your country, in which case, she could do so before Brexit happens.

However the OP started a thread to have a constructive discussion and has been patronised and had her intelligence questioned

She presented an extremely naïve plan, do you want us to pretend that is not the case?

I can only speak for myself but the mothers I know chose to move themselves - they weren't 'removed' by their families.

The way to have a more constructive discussion about the actual issues is to avoid insulting people.

The way to have a constructive discussion is to acknowledge the issues and talk about how and when they can be addressed.

Frankly anyone who comes out with this Trumpian "make Britain great again" crap deserves contempt.

It's possible to have very interesting and constructive debates with leave voters like my father, a long standing Eurosceptic who supports the flexcit option (EEA). But I have yet to encounter any eurosceptics like this on MN.

Which goes back to my point about moving while the UK is still in the EU manon

she could do so before Brexit happens

With no guarantee that she could stay, and having given up her housing?

This is just silly. I'm not expecting sympathy, but the issue of what happens to elderly people in cross-border families is one of the forgotten brexit questions. It applies equally to British retirees on low incomes living in the EU, many of whom will face difficulties if pension uprating ceases or if reciprocal healthcare rights are rescinded - both very likely in a hard brexit scenario.

Analysis and evaluation to understand people's position is positive. Insulting people is negative

One person's analysis is another person's insult.

If I presented such a plan to this forum I know what the response would be. It had no basis in political and economic reality, and read like a 12 year old's school essay.

So, various people have given Surfer reasons that the Brexit vote has directly effected them.

But we're still waiting to hear from her about all the dreadful effects that EU membership has had on her...

misti I completely agree that you shouldn't have to think about things like this as we should never have ended up in this situation but wouldn't you also be forced to return to the UK if it were no longer part of the EU if it is the case your mother would have to?

surfer long since gave up even attempting to answer questions, she just stokes the fire every so often with ridiculous flag waving nonsense.

I'm with Manon. Analysis is all very well, but when an op says "here's my plan" and then presents a jingoistic collection of platitudes coupled with an exhortation to be positive, frankly it deserves whatever it gets.