Westministenders Continues. The one where are being grateful for having a Boris rather than a Trump and UKIP show Labour how it’s done.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TWELVE

The calm of the eye of the storm is upon us. The signs are there that more trouble is ahead. What now for Brexit, the blank cheque for our future?

May’s honeymoon can only last the Summer, until she has to do some proper graft. Her Cabinet have all gone on holiday and to swat up on their new specialised subject, and by god have they got some homework to do.

Well, all of them apart from Liam Fox, who has bugger all to do for some time.

Johnson needs to… well we all know what Boris needs to do. Bend over and take it like a good boy.

Davies needs to learn the entire structure and workings of the EU and its variations of trade agreements and relationships with other nations. Juncker has the FUKD in his little black book of people who have crossed him (yes, he actually has one of these) and has put Brit Hating Barnier in charge of the EU Brexit team. Davies must somehow hold his own against this experienced EU hardnut. In French. Oh and find a permanent office.

What do the others need to learn? Hammond - how to perform a bloody miracle. Patel - it is illegal to use foreign aid as a leverage for trade deals. Leadsom – er everything? Rudd – how to do bigger assault on liberty and human rights than her mentor. Fallon – how we will afford to defend ourselves with pitch forks, especially if we can’t use Trident for some reason and it becomes necessary. Our enemy; Russia? North Korea? Turkey? Isis? Na. Trump if he wins.

Brexit is now officially in the hands Whitehall’s unbelievers. Those overstretched officials who are already saying there is a gap in their capacity to deliver what Parliament wants without additional the burden of Brexit. These discredited experts are left wondering if their challenge is, in reality, Mission Impossible, and this is made worse by the pressure that just about every senior Brexiteer seems to say is ‘easy’ despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary. Which is cold comfort to everyone who voted – Remain or Leave alike.

We still don’t even know what Brexit is. It is still something which has no coherent ideology and no clear set of prescriptions for what ailes us as a society. It is a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposes. Whatever the problem, Brexit can fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, Brexit can vanquish it, and it is unnecessary for Brexiteers to explain how.

May’s plan? Some say that she is the Dear Leader, some say she is an evil genius with Larry the Cat on her lap waiting for the Brexiteer Boys to fuck it up so we can Remain, some say she is blessed by the Ghost of Thatcher but we know her as The PM. –Sorry I’ve been itching to make the May/Hammond Top Gear gag for several weeks— The truth is, we just don't know yet.

Plus anything Brexit related about the Labour and UKIP leadership and the rest of the world thrown in to boot.

This is the quest for the answers that everyone wants and trying to keep an eye on those politicians and accountability (both here and abroad in the era of post-fact politics in the trail of Brexit). There maybe no single ‘truth’ but there sure as hell is a lot of bullshit to wade through. Get your wellies out, and plough on through with us.

No experience necessary. Sense of humour required.

-------------------------

Brexit Fall Out Timetable
Labour Hustings Nottinghamshire: Wednesday 17th August
Labour Hustings Birmingham: Thursday 18th August.
Labour Hustings Glasgow: Thursday 25th August.
Labour Hustings London: Thursday 1st September
UKIP Leadership Result: 15th September
Labour Leadership Result: Saturday 24th September
The Department for Exiting the European Union first question sessions in Parliament: Thursday 20th October
High Court hearing on a50: due 'no earlier than the third week in October'
US Presidential Election: 8th November
French Presidential Election 1st Round: 23 April 2017
French Presidential Election 2nd Round: 7th May 2017
German Federal Election: Between 27 August and 22 October 2017

Last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2690632-Westminstenders-Continues-Boris-is-having-a-bad-week-Corbyn-resists-Its-gonna-be-a-long-summer?pg=1

Red Corbyn supporters are the first to jump and down about democracy when it comes to the leadership of the party but then seemingly disregard it when it comes to the wider electorate. I would be very upset if my local MP was replaced purely because he is not sympathetic enough with the leadership.

Peregina, the winter of discontent is pretty much your answer to that.

As for the economy, leaving a note that there is 'no money left' is your reason.

Combined with the collective selective memory of the media.

Peregrina in fairness the party did release a statement yesterday about the Southern Rail dispute. With a better media strategy it may have got more coverage.

press.labour.org.uk/post/148634834379/the-barrier-to-resolving-the-southern-gtr-dispute.

Ah, so we just need a snappy Shakespearean quote, to lay the current sorry mess at the Tory's feet. And it is a Tory mess. Corbyn/Labour did not call the Referendum.

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 2m2 minutes ago
My former colleague @paulmasonnews tells me he's "categorically" NOT standing for Labour nomination for Leigh, where he was born

so...give it a couple of weeks and he's a shoo-in for sure!

Sounds like Leigh has 3 good candidates for AB's seat. Should give pause for thought to any PLP members weighing up the deselection prospects.

Just to balance Red's earlier post one of the causes of the current disconnect between the membership and the PLP is the selection process used for a number of sitting MPs. It is my understanding that some of the problems between AE and her CLP are rooted in the way she was selected in the first place. I am also not sure that sacrificing a few seats to the Lib / Dems would be a bad thing to do strategically.

I think the Summer of Sorry Shit might be sufficient.

Interesting

Chris Hanretty ‏@chrishanretty 17m17 minutes ago
Chris Hanretty Retweeted Bloomberg
The EFTA sweet talking begins...

'U.K. Hands First License to Icelandic Finance Firm Since Crisis'

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-09/u-k-hands-first-license-to-icelandic-finance-firm-since-crisis?utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-business

I can't see Burnham not winning in Manchester - hope he attacks May on the fracking bribe.

Oops, got two threads on the go and put this on the wrong one!

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen 4m4 minutes ago
David Allen Green Retweeted The Guardian

Well.

David Allen Green added,
The Guardian @guardian
Norway may block UK return to European Free Trade Association trib.al/Tax2Q3H
6 retweets 3 likes

Norway has been saying that for a while; that the UK would unbalance EFTA with its much larger population and a large financial services sector to "protect" () and different priorities rather than, for example, fishing.

Scotland on the other hand

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/14465/a-supersize-committee-could-hamper-parliaments-scrutiny-of-brexit/]]

A super size committee for Brexit?

If a super-sized committee is going to be the chosen scrutiny structure for Brexit, the choice of Chair will be crucial. It will need to be someone who commands the confidence of the whole House, has a strong relationship of mutual respect with the Prime Minister and key Brexit ministers, and has a clear vision for the contribution that the Brexit Committee should be aiming to make.

Providing sufficient resource to support the committee’s activity – including seconding in appropriate specialists such as legal experts – will also be important. Alternative structures could also be used to manage the differing interests of members – the Banking Commission used sub-committees or ‘panels’ – but careful thought will need to be given to ensuring their work really contributes to that of the committee as a whole.

But ultimately, the lessons of history tell us that big is not beautiful where effective parliamentary committees are concerned, and size often comes at a cost of effectiveness.

Anyone else think that a 'Well' should come along with that idea too?

"It will need to be someone who commands the confidence of the whole House, has a strong relationship of mutual respect with the Prime Minister and key Brexit ministers, and has a clear vision for the contribution that the Brexit Committee should be aiming to make."

So, basically a political unicorn, then?

HesterThrale
Thinking ahead to what unplanned consequences there might be (and I know this is conjecture). Perhaps EU immigration will naturally decrease over the next couple of years anyway? Maybe due to a recession meaning fewer jobs; and EU people feeling less welcome. (I already know of one Polish family returning to Poland.)
Would this then expose to Leave voters that we still get a lot of immigration from outside the EU? There is no obvious way to 'vote against' that. (And the revolt against it is ugly and more apparently racist.)
However some may realise that Brexit is not the cure-all they'd believed, and be less set on it.

No I think the exchange below sums up well what will happen. Remember Green is not even technically a Remainer but someone who has an interest in how the heck the government are going to be able to navigate this minefield.

Daniel Hannan @DanielJHannan
A surprising number of British people on Twitter want the country to fail outside the EU, so as to be able to say "I told you so".

Justabelle ‏@Justabelles
@DanielJHannan Oh yes. Only need to see David Allen Green's tweets and his followers (Remoaners) all willing the UK to fail. So unpatriotic.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen
@Justabelles @DanielJHannan My tweets are pointing out the scale of the task ahead: it is up to Leave to meet that task.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen
A significant number of Tweeters are alert to the sheer difficulties of the task ahead for Brexit.

David Allen Green ‏@DavidAllenGreen
Pointing out sheer scale of the task ahead for Brexit is not "wanting the UK to fail".

Wise Brexiteers know this.

Repeat ad nauseum for the next oh, ten years or so.

The above is a bit rich coming from Daniel Hannan considering that he's made it clear he wants a Norway style agreement. You only need to have seen him on Newsnight a night or two after the vote, and to have seen Evan Davis's utter exasperation with him.

Was looking at a Conservative home article by DH on his views on Brexit options - he said the exact form is for stakeholders other than him to decide.

Anyway this was the most recent link which I think is interesting

www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/08/almost-three-in-four-of-our-party-member-survey-respondents-want-a-hard-brexit-not-the-soft-version.html

(Remoaners) all willing the UK to fail. So unpatriotic.

We've seen plenty of this kind of nonsense on here too. Nobody ever seems to be able to answer why, if one could "will" stuff to happen, they would be choosing this particular aim rather than, say, rainbow unicorns farting gold coins, or a million dollars for themselves, or (here's an idea!) for Remain to have won in the first place.

JeremyCorbyn4PM twitter account posted this picture

Daniel Hannan is one of those firmly convinced that he's always the smartest person in the room. He also seems to think that just because he wants something, everyone else will let him have exactly what he wants. I don't think negotiation is probably his greatest skill.

It doesn't surprise me that the majority of paid up Tories want hard Brexit. I am sure that most of them would like to get the Empire back too.

The worry for me, and this is what I was trying to get my MP to answer, is that if the 'hard brexit' camp win the Tory party in Parliament over, would she vote for them, despite being a Remainer herself? Because you know, Brexit it Brexit and we are going to make a success of it, and it's democracy, blah, blah, blah.

They don't usually worry too much about what the electorate want, so why now? However, no one really knows what all the other Brexiters want.

And would they really vote for hard -Brexit, if it seriously damaged the Country? Sadly, yes, but it wouldn't be their fault. In the way that it was Corbyn's fault that Labour didn't deliver Remain for Cameron, not that he couldn't be arsed to find out the mood of his own party.

Rant over for now.

I'm not convinced the Brexit vote was driven by politics.

Rightly or wrongly I'm a Tory voter but I'm vehemently against Brexit.

Apart from anything else I don't actually think it will happen to any great extent therefore the costs will far outweigh any benefit and it will all have been in vain.

At best it is naive to think we are better off on our own, at worst it's arrogant.

I've found it intriguing how aligned my thoughts on Brexit have been with life long Labour supporters on these threads- I'm convinced the divide is not as simple as where you'd usually put your cross on a ballot paper.

Peregrina, I wrote to ask my MP (a Tory Remainer) whether the Govt would have the integrity to advise the nation (if negotiations and fact-finding predicted negative consequences) that Brexit was actually inadvisable and damaging.

(Possibly they'd have the next election in mind.)

I'll let you know the response.

Bearbehind there are a lot of Tory Remainers near where I live. They were the only ones with Remain posters out.

I personally think the Brexit divide is the centre Remain and the furthest right and left were Leave.

Hence why Labour, Lib Dem and Tory voters can and do all have similar views.