Anyone thinking of leaving the UK following the referendum vote?

[crazyhead]

Just curious really. Me and my husband believe quite passionately in the EU project and it feels as though we don't want to sit here and watch the UK leave. I watched my Mum die last year and I just can't bear the slow motion grief of seeing this as well.

So we're thinking of leaving the UK for a while. DH has an interview on Friday for a US job for starters (we'd prefer EU but fewer relevant jobs - and we've not got the ancestry for EU passports sadly).

Anyone else thinking of leaving?

And trying hasn't come back to answer my question about whether she minds Britons whose first language is Bangladeshi or Urdu. I would suspect not.

All the efforts of the more thoughtful Leavers to convince people that their vote was based on careful consideration of the facts, and from the most inclusive and welcoming intentions, and how outrageous it is to suggest that anybody voted Leave for, well, less pleasant reasons. And then somebody like trying (and some others I have seen on the EURef topic) pops up and ruins it all.

I was talking to someone the other day, who is a thoughtful sort of person. He said he was interested in what UKIP had to offer, went to see Farage talk, and came away thinking that the man was a total nutter. I suspect he voted Leave anyway, but it wouldn't have been for racist purposes.

After the second world war there were loads of Polish migrants in our small mill town and I went to school with quite a few children of these ex servicemen. There was a Polish club set up and it's still there. They are part of our community. People who come and settle in our country bring culture and diversity and that is what Britain is all about.

Small mill town = Leek, Staffs?

No Scottish Borders.

Ah, just interested, because the same applied in Leek, and the Poles were well integrated and accepted. The goodwill engendered was no doubt in part due to them coming over and fighting on our side in WW2.

Developing the theme of the older Polish communities - apart from the goodwill resulting from the war, there was also plenty of steady work around (talking about 40 years ago now). It wasn't well paid, but it was secure. Then again, there were plenty of small houses available for people to do up, so people could live comfortably. The Poles left behind were living under communism, so there was a certain sympathy for those who had been able to get out.

These factors make a difference, I think, to how well a new community can integrate.

I am back. I have no problem with British Urdu speakers.
You can complain all you like but this is about more than money and financial benefits.
Many people feel ill at ease in the communities that they and their families have grown up in surrounded by people who speak other languages all around them.
There is a school in Nottingham where there is only child whose first language is English.
I speak good French.
The Metropolitan Elite may feel deprived but they need to realise that the rest of the country do not share their views.

and both of my DCs are linguists.

I voted leave for well thought out and considered reasons. I assume you do not like my reasons.
But, I am well educated up to Masters level and live in the South East.

I have no idea how Brits on the Costas behave so I cannot comment on it.

There is a school in Nottingham where there is only child whose first language is English.
Which school is this, and which other languages are spoken?

I'm just waiting to see what date is going to be the cut off for non British born people have to apply to stay in the UK. I would imagine it'll be around 2007/2008 but we'll have to see what T.May & her cohorts negotiate.

Thought there was something about EU citizens who have been here over 5 years can apply for British citizenship so I don't think that can be right angelos.

manon your posts are informative and inspiring.

trying even if the UK does now brexit - whether that brexit is "hard" or "soft", immigration is IMO not going to be significantly reduced. People rarely seem to mention the fact that just over half of last year's net immigration figure was made up of non EU immigrants. Also that, included in both the EU and non EU figures, are students - who mostly go back home when their courses finish. IMO we now live in a global world (one with a massive refugee crisis going on). Far better for our government to spend money on investing in communities which feel "overwhelmed" - rather than spending the billions it is going to cost to come out of the EU.

Regarding the 1 child in the Nottingham school whose first language is English - presumably the other children all now speak English as well? I work as a TA in a school with a high proportion of children whose first language is not English. All this means is that they speak a different language at home, but English in the playground and in the classroom. Of the 28 children (they are 10 years old) in my class, 4 speak English as a first language. Of the remaining 24, only 1 is learning English (and improving in leaps and bounds) - the others are all fluent. They come from all over the globe (mostly non EU countries as it happens), but interact / play / argue and learn in English. They are children before being any nationality.

I also hope that many of the EU nationals who have come here will leave. It will take the pressure off our child benefit system, our schools, our medical facilities, housing benefits, housing etc.. Why should they leave? Their whole lives are here - family, friends, jobs, homes... Would you expect the UK citizens living all over the EU to uproot themselves? If they did they would certainly take up a lot of NHS resources...

Immigrants also, overall, contribute more to the UK than they "use" in welfare etc.

Research findings.

I didn't say I expected them to leave. I said I hoped they would leave.
What British citizens living in other EU countries do is entirely up to them. I have no expectations as far as they are concerned.
Most of the foreign workers that I encounter in the NHS are not EU. Many of the nurses are Asian, often from the Philippines.
I have no problem with controlled immigration where we have a skills shortage. But there is no skills shortage in the coffee shops or supermarkets which is where many East European young people in my area work.

Crossroads, they make a net contribution as far as money is concerned but I am not talking about money.
I am talking about something more fundamental.
And don't forget we are paying child benefit for children still at home in the EU, and much of the money earned is sent back home.
The school in Nottingham was mentioned on here in the education forums by a teacher who works there and it was in the Telegraph a few months ago. It is costing the country a lot of money to teach these kids English. Money that should be spent on British kids because many of them are failing and could benefit from the additional resources.

There are plenty of small communities like the ones Trying seems to prefer; where you have to live there at least 30 years before you are classed as anything but an incomer. Far from being havens of peace and tranquility, they are usually rather stultifying, and the young people can't wait to leave.

We are living abroad at the moment and planned to move back to the UK in about 3 years. However, since Brexit, that is no longer (a) desirable or (b) practical, as both my and my husband's jobs were dependent on EU membership.

On an entirely different note, I am absolutely terrified that we are going to end up going to war soon (especially once Trump gets voted in) and I have been thinking about where to live to escape the fallout (both literally and metaphorically speaking). I'm genuinely looking into moving to NZ or even somewhere like Fiji now.

Most of the foreign workers that I encounter in the NHS are not EU

Actually the % are about equal , but as we appear to live in a post-factual democracy these days, lets just take your word for it.

I have no idea how Brits on the Costas behave so I cannot comment on it. I'm sure they integrate straight away, wouldn't dare to touch the health service and avoid speaking English in public to other English people so as not to offend the small minded Spaniards whose homes they have bought up for peanuts during the recession.

What exactly is wrong with people speaking their own language? If I'm at the supermarket in my host country with my English family, I will speak English. If that made someone uncomfortable I would find it unbelievably funny and sad. But that doesn't happen, because nobody outside of Britain seems to have this over-inflated sense of self worth connected to the language. Do you even have any idea of the history of the language? That you are speaking a bastardised mix of French, Latin, German and Scandinavian dialects? Do you have any idea how fucking difficult it is to learn? What a phrasal verb is? Why "proud" takes the preposition "of" but "pride" takes the preposition "in." I can't blame people for wanting to speak their own language around those who speak it. If your children are linguists then you should know better. It is GOOD for children to be around other languages. There are studies linking it to higher attainment in maths, sciences etc. The earlier the better. So that school in Nottingham sounds great, actually.

I voted leave for well thought out and considered reasons You have yet to provide anything but xenophobic, nonsensical rubbish, and people wonder why Leavers are thought of as brainless racists.

Metropolitan elite , ffs. So the 70 odd percent of young people who wanted to stay are all metropolitan elites.

Since trying doesn't want the financial services to have a passport, doesn't want universities to have access to research money and EU staff, which, as I understand, are two of our biggest earners, I would like to know - what does she think will earn money for this country?

Many people feel ill at ease in the communities that they and their families have grown up in surrounded by people who speak other languages all around them. Except Urdu, for some reason

Many people feel ill at ease as their jobs, homes and livelihoods are now at risk.

Many people feel ill at ease about being used as political bargaining chips.

Many people feel ill at ease as their children are asking if Daddy has to leave, or being told outright to "go home."

Many, many people feel ill at ease by the spike in hate crimes since the ref (yes, not all leavers racist but the figures are there) and the low level, unchecked underlying intolerance, the fact that facts and experts are no longer given an ear but Murdoch and rumour and clickbait are.

It puts a pesky foreign language into perspective, if you possess a sense of perspective.

It is costing the country a lot of money to teach these kids English. It may or may not be - it is also providing employment.

Again - going by the very diverse school that I work in - there is one part time English as an Additional Language teacher who takes the kids who need support out of their classrooms for short sessions. Hardly a drain on the other children. But maybe you wouldn't care if these children suffered a lack because for the most part they are not British either .

Children who do have to learn English also learn it very fast. They are like sponges.

I think this polarisation - this "them" and "us" thinking is really dangerous. How do you define a British person in any case? People, in general, do not fit into neat impermeable categorisations.