Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

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This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

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So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

That was good Hester

AE initially annoyed me with her "will her won't her" dithering, but in the end she was the only one with the balls to stick her head above the parapet, and she also had the decency to drop out without a fuss instead of splitting the opposition to JC.

I don't think she was the right person to beat JC though, if only because of her vote for the war. It's like waving a red flag in front of the Corbynista bull.

Mind you I also highly doubt Owen Smith is the right person.

Eagle is a woman.

Worse, she is a woman with experience and a voting record.

Being a man is obviously better than being a woman who might have blemished her purity by voting pragmatically at any point in the past.

Left wing puritanism fucks us again.

I'm still thinking it is worth more to join the Conservatives.

At least then I would get to vote on the future of the country rather than weighing in on some tedious internal bickering of a party that disdains making decisions and winning elections.

I agree Chalalala. I had this funny feeling from the off that AE was a 'stalking horse' who was just starting things off (with the challenge). But I think she'll be back some day in some way.
Owen Smith - not sure. I think we're stuck with JC, and long term feeble opposition, whether they split or not.

The Women's Equality Party agrees:
www.womensequality.org.uk/labour_women_problem

I think Doin's assessment is about right - sadly.

It doesn't help that Jones is such a Welsh name and Smith is not.

I'm still not convinced and I don't think I can vote for Corbyn again. Do you think we'll get any other candidates?

Smith is way better than Corbyn.

But Eagle was better than him.

The only one out of the sodding lot of them who has shown any genuine leadership or principle in the last 4 weeks.

10.30 = Is Corbyn on the ballot high court decision
12.00 = May's first PMQs
18.00 = Merkel May press conference

uk has given up its 2017 EU presidency.

www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/owen-smith-told-a-female-party-leader-she-was-invited-on-tv?utm_term=.atZpVG48Z#.xsWvEpakl
Owen appears to be a sexist twonk

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/19/liberals-celebrities-and-eu-supporters-set-up-progressive-movement
The initiative is not a political party, nor an attempt to create a new centrist one on the model of the SDP in the 1980s. But if the movement were to succeed in attracting subscribers to a website, it could intervene in politics by recommending specific candidates at the next election.

It does not yet have a name, but the initiative is expected to take up the theme of “more in common” – the phrase associated with the murdered Labour MP Jo Cox, whose husband, Brendan Cox, is aware of the project.

Re: Clegg, perhaps he should just be the Minister for Remain, rather than a shadow minister or a spokesman (well there's no opposition one) and there is no one representing the interests of remain voters.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/20/well-done-britain-brexit-vote-boosts-french-far-right-front-national-election-machine Le Pen's positive response to Brexit

Liz Truss off to a good start, with two junior conservatives refusing to work under her.

Sarah Vine, is back in the Daily Mail. Talking bollocks.

Regardless of her personal qualities I don't think Eagle would have made it as leader, even less as PM. She would have been perceived as a simpering woman with a weak voice and too many emotions.

Apparently to be really successful in politics as a woman the only option is to fit the Ice Maiden cliché.

She would have been perceived as a simpering woman with a weak voice and too many emotions.

Well by that logic no woman can ever make it as a leader of anything.

Well, yes DoinItFine, that's rather the point isn't it.

It's only the point if you accept sexism and misogyny as unchangeable aspects of reality.

Just because people will try to portray any woman in that way doesn't mean we should prefer men as leaders.

Owen Smith's credentials as the fresh new face without baggage evaporating before our eyes...

The Leanne Wood exchange really does not paint him in a good line. Makes him sound bitter and sexist. But given the previous conversation about Labour's women problem, I suspect that his past as a Pfizer lobbyist will hurt him more.

The WEP would say that wouldn't they? They have shown a spectacular lack of understanding or empathy for "women's" issues since their inception. (See their stance on men staying overnight on maternity wards, putting the rights of transgender above those of the general female population, prioritising a low cost and therefore necessarily low pay and lower quality childcare framework so that the privileged minority of well educated wealthy women can afford to "have it all").

This for me typifies the problem the LP has with women. IMO it is not "pale stale males" holding them back but rather the "pale stale privileged females" who continue to fight the battles of the past which were about gender and refuse to accept or address the inequalities of childbearing and rearing.

BigChoc I have a real problem with trickle down economics. What would be so wrong with the wealthy doing their own cleaning and paying enough tax so that the State can afford a decent standard of social care for those who actually need homehelp? What would be so wrong with trading fairly with the developing World so that its inhabitants genuinely shared in the fruits of globalization. (Niggled by the Canada discussion earlier I spent yesterday afternoon analysing trade balances and supervising playdough. The EU has trade surpluses with most of its developing Nation trade partners. This smacks of discriminatory trade policies and also the policy of supplying aid and loans which the elites in these countries use to buy BMWs etc while paying bottom dollar for commodity and agricultural imports.)

Just because people will try to portray any woman in that way doesn't mean we should prefer men as leaders.

No, but I wasn't trying to argue for what we should do, it was just a descriptive statement of what would have (I suspect) happened if she had been chosen.

I was thinking of Thatcher, Merkel, May, Clinton, and musing that the only path towards political success for women seems to be to appear especially tough and cold. (no Boris Johnson 'loveable goof' option if you're a woman, for instance). I was describing, not approving.

The confusion with Owen Smith is highly amusing.

There actually is very little difference between him and Owen Jones. Prior to becoming an MP Owen Smith was a journalist / broadcaster and then press adviser to a drugs company. His Dad was chairman of the Welsh Arts Council so I assume the usual nepotism in the media got him his first job.

It is a very strange state of affairs when the Leadership challenger is standing on the same policy platform as the incumbent. His only real complaint with JC seems to be that he can't build a team, presumably because of the personal ambitions of people like OS.

(Apologies if I am even grumpier than usual - I have just spent 10 minutes degunking the ice cream extruder).

Red still digesting your links, but wanted to add this which you led me to and speaks to my view on trickle down economics and PokemonGo.

www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/get-off-my-poke-lawn?utm_term=.qkXp99zAB#.wvYY88Xno

I would refuse to work with Liz Truss too! A lot of MPs and members of the legal profession are also questioning her competence for her role in representing the independence of the judiciary given her lack of legal qualifications and her lack of previous political seniority.

Her views on increasing child care ratios and slash and burn approach to government budgets and apparent tunnel vision wrt to GO austerity give me the rage.

Also still going through Red's link, and the whole Le Pen business is so depressing.

It's depressing because there's a very real possibility that Britain making a success out of Brexit would be politically disastrous for France.

Another fun game of Brexit "would you rather"...

Unsurprisingly the WEP are in favour of Liz Truss - they don't care about anything other than the fact she is a woman

www.legalcheek.com/2016/07/backlash-lawyers-react-to-appointment-of-new-lord-chancellor/

It would make sense if Labour's official policy was republicanism, actually. Then Corbyn could be shadow President.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/millennials-financial-crisis-intergenerational-inequality-not-solved-by-technology-politicians-a7144501.html
Young people might have Pokémon Go but they don't have a meaningful status within society.

Interesting idea.

There are plenty of better qualified women out there, even if Anna Soubry with her "15 years of legal experience and 20 years seniority" may be a bit deluded in thinking she could hold a senior cabinet position atm given her Brexit vote denial stance.

FWIW NS is a woman and a lawyer and has vast experience of dealing with Scottish, English and constitutional law and is making a fair fist of considering EU and international legal arrangements.

< eyes tiggy suspiciously, checks it's not 1st April > Crikey, you're not pulling the thread's plonkers.
President of Labour !
The rl Labour saga is so much more fantastic than any political drama.
If we didn't so deperately need an opposition, I'd just order in popcorn for the next episode.

Doinitfine may have the best idea - join & influence the Tory party.
Also, they seem to accept women in power.

I thought Eagle would be pushed aside, partly because of her sex. I think it's unfair.
And she may get deselected now, or at least not have a seat after the new boundaries come into force
I hope not. She had the courage to stand up for what she believed in and she deserves better than political oblivion after the next GE.

HowAbout Brexit was boosted by many on low incomes who feel their wages squeezed by East European immigrants.
Imagine the fury & despair if they have to compete with pay & conditions of India, Bangladesh, China & co. Really rubbing their noses in it.

The EU blocks imports to at least make globalisation more gradual and less painful for EU members.
Relaxing EU trade barriers to help the developing countries would risk an internal explosion of anger.
So, trying to ameliorate globalisation is something I'd praise the EU for, not criticise.

Brexit economists like Minford - also many rich Tories and too many privileged mc people - are quite happy to accept the death of UK manufacturing, because neither they nor their families would ever wish / need such jobs.

In contrast, people in countries like Germany, France are determined to keep their big manufacturing base, with the millions of pretty good jobs and apprenticeships that it brings, rather than rely overwhelmingly on the services and finance sector like the UK does.
They don't have the British snobbiness about "making things" that I so often experienced.