Westminstenders Contines. Boris outmaneovered everyone?! Now War and Peace?

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TEN

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This set of threads started out asking if Boris had been outmanoeuvred by Cameron handing him a poison chalice. Fate made it seem as if Boris lost the battle but May has confounded everyone and handed him a second chance. Or so it might seem.

May now has a new Cabinet after a sweeping cull of Cameron's lot. It is more right wing than in a generation. A number of appointments have raised eyebrows. There are plenty of poison chalices and plenty of Brexiteers. Will this create peace in the Tory ranks? Or is it just the calm before the storm

Labour are tearing themselves apart what now seems to be all out civil war. Talk of gerrymandering, violence, disenfranchisement, deselection and intimidation are rife. The seems to be no end in sight, and no prospect of a solution apparent. The question perhaps seems to be when and how, rather than if the party will split, and who will retain the name and party funds.

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So the sad face of British politics in the last two days can be summed up in a single image. Boris and a brick.

Depressed?

I think we have a while to go yet before we hit the bottom.

Excuse me with the intros as I'm starting to struggle to keep up with things myself

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2684990-The-Westminster-Hunger-Games-Contines-May-Day-May-Day Previous Thread Nine

I am cooking dinner listening to the Trident debate and boggling with incredulity at the assertion that the UK nuclear deterant is independent. Delusions of grandeur are evidently not my exclusive preserve

Honestly I think a lot of our hostility to the EU, stems from our arrogance and over inflated sense of national influence.

Look at the views regarding how we won WWII for starters. Our national psyche is that we should get everything we demand because we are Britain.

The irony is that a lot of our recent political power has been PRECISELY because of our position in the EU and how we are placed with also having 'the special relationship' with the USA.

Two world wars and one world cup and not exactly useful in 2016. But that's just it - people want to go back to 1950 or earlier and an age before globalisation that no longer exists. And never really did in the frst place anyway.

Agree Red. I've been lucky (or insulated) because I've not had to have any conversations with leavers since the vote. But, in front of me at the checkout today, an older woman was saying "Don't want them telling us what to do" whilst the younger lad on the checkout was "Don't even know what they're for or what they do."

I some just want to live in Heartbeat

'stood alone against Napoleon'

How about 'declared war on France and maintained it for a decade by paying large sums to other European powers to fight with them'.

It simply is not OK to write this utter SHIT about history. I wouldn't write blog posts or articles about history because I don't know enough - having done a history degree Ifound out I wash a historian. But I learned some respect for the complexity of history and its importance. Enough not to just piss all over it for political gain.

Wasn't not Wash.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/owen-smith-labour-leadership-election-angela-eagle-jeremy-corbyn-candidates-vote-a7143221.html
Not the best move Owen.

www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/daviddavisdavisdavid?utm_term=.ar35bEqKn#.pak2L3kXK

Theresa May's Pokedex.

No there is no escaping Pokémon.

Nuclear debate. Many backbenchers stabbing Jeremy in the back. Making cheap political points invoking Attlee.

Trident is currently Labour party policy though, voted for by the membership who Corbyn can't possibly go against when it comes to him being leader, although on this...

And Diane Abbott just tweeted criticism of a Labour MP, for supporting a Labour policy:

Diane Abbott MPVerified account
‏@HackneyAbbott
So @JWoodcockMP cheered to the echo by Tory MPs as he proclaims support for Trident Nuclear Weapons System @CNDuk

Oh wow OS. Way to put your foot in it.

europe.newsweek.com/brexitjustice-campaign-hopes-prosecute-vote-leave-campaigners-481417?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=http%3A%2F%2Feurope.newsweek.com%2Frss%2Fsocial

Crowdsourcing project to prosecute Brexit liars.

most people, if not the vast majority of people, haven't a fucking clue what it does - or doesn't do.

I studied the EU for a bit at University - all that I can recall now was the strangely soporific affect the class had on me...

As I said on another thread, I asked a family member which EU-'superstate' legislations in particular he objected to. He paused for a very long time then said - PPI?

I've heard people blaming the EU for potential damage to the NHS of TTIP. At least they were aware that it was a EU trade deal. Pity that they were NOT so aware that it was the other countries like nasty France and evil Germany who were stalling on the damaging aspects and it was our own Tory Government who would've been happy to sign it without any of the clauses protecting "state" institutions

Has anyone seen this about Arm being sold off.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822806

Arm design chips for phones and computers and they are going to sell to a Japanese firm. It is one of our few really good technology firms.

May has said that this proves there is confidence in British Business still.

I am agog at this. HOW is SELLING IT OFF in the national interest?! We need to make sure that as many businesses like this stay in British ownership under the circumstances we now find ourselves in.

Vince Cable has been on the news tonight saying how it is a bad thing.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694859/May-clash-Corbyn-Commons-Trident-head-head-security-debate-tear-Labour-apart.html#comments

Red- yes, I saw that. Via Robert Peston's Facebook page. While Labour was self-immolating in a largely pointless debate over Trident which is a done deal anyway.

This is why we need an opposition party. My feeling is that Jeremy could care less about some big business being sold as it's all evil capitalism. Am I being unfair? I'm kind of over him and leaning towards Owen Smith. Yes, he made a tactless comment. But as Marina Hyde put it he is the least dirty thing in the laundry basket.

Well, if we have to have a Labour leadership contest I hope someone else is going to stand because I don't have any faith in any of the 3 candidates.

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 3m3 minutes ago
I'm told that Angela Eagle and Owen Smith have now finally agreed there will be only one candidate challenging JC

Doesn't say they've agreed who it will be, though.

I thought OS looked like a completely different person at his launch event when he didn't have his jacket and tie on.

Literally just had the conversation from labour person that called me, she said there will be only one candidate but wouldn't be drawn on who.

I think that has to be Owen Smith - he has more support from MPs. And Eagle voted for Iraq invasion which is just such a mark against her.

I'm not feeling excited about Smith. But maybe there's been too much excitement and not enough pragmatism lately. And at least a vote for him - by signing up as a £25 supporter, dodgy though that is - would give a slightly more chance of Labour being a functioning opposition party, rather than a minority pressure party like the Greens which it would be, I fear, under Corbyn and his supporters. And I don't think that's due to all 170 MPs who voted against him being Blairites. If he couldn't argue for Remain, and he can't convince 170 MPs of his support, then he's hardly going to win over the electorate despite his 'mandate' of 0.5% of the population.

But I'm sure you're sick of hearing this :)

Thanks for these threads, Red, they're bloody brilliant!

Forgive me if this has been posted already - haven't RTFTs (been trying to catch up since late June! )

Thegirlinthe fireplace "Am I 100% sure that EEA does not include Financial Passporting for the Vity of London"

I checked several expert sources (= not newspapers !)
The consensus among experts:

The EEA has the single market for trade, but is only making very slow progress wrt financial services.
So "Passporting" is not yet included and would require a special UK deal - all 33 current EEA members would have to agree to this and to UK membership of EEA. So, very risky.

WTO rules do not cover financial services at all, so it is expected the UK would lose Passporting if it ends up with the WTO option.

Expert explanation of the available Brexit options
Most useful I found is from one of the world's top legal firms (Slaughter & May). They belong to the "Magic Circle" of elite UK law firms.
They explained options before the referendum, then they issued quite scary post-ref update advising businesses what to do:

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/2535258/brexit-essentials-alternatives-to-eu-membership.pdf

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/2535551/brexit-essentials-navigating-uncharted-seas-a-practical-guide-for-businesses.pdf

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/2535600/brexit-managing-new-challenges.pdf

Their full Brexit series of info:
https://www.slaughterandmay.com/what-we-do/publications-and-seminars/brexit-essentials/