To feel really positive about leaving the EU

[kitty1976]

I know there has been lots of fear stories but in a few weeks since the vote we have managed to get a new PM who seems more than capable and we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU. The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out. Do remember we are now free to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world and most countries are not in the EU and seem to do well. There have been so many fear stories which have been peddled by self interest. I wonder in 5 years time how many remainers will be asking to rejoin the EU!!

I think we'll have to wait and see.

But the 2020 goal has already been chucked, so we'll see what they do.

The 2020 goal was chucked for the simple reason that Brexit has made it unachievable, they need to increase borrowing to fund riding the economic shock, not to pay for greater fairness.

I know why it was abandoned, but it has been destroying our economy, and hurting the poorest of the poor, and most other non-rich people.

So it's good that it's gone.

Investment in our economy through borrowing is long overdue.

I'm sorry it took Brexit to force their hands, but I'm still glad it's happening.

I think the UK is likely to be worse off permanently due to Brexit, but not every single thing that happens is going to be a disaster.

People voted for a different distribution of less wealth, afaics, and they might get that.

I think people voted for an end to a lot of different things, many of which, the migrant swarm claiming
benefits, raping and committing crime, the undemocratic EU, were actually illusory, however underlying that I agree the vote arose out of discontent with the unfairness of government policy. However I don't think many were voting for a poorer Britain, they are like OP and think it will be alright. And what they have got is a government that is further to the right, the ones that think if you are not working you should get on your bike (even if you have Cancer or no legs ) With the exception of Justine Greening who might just get her sleeves up to deliver the school places where they are needed and mitigate the damage done to the education of the disadvantaged by Gove I don't see anyone who is not going to deliver more of the same, however it gets spun. Apart from anything else they won't be able to afford to. Remember Maggie delivered a very similar speech to Theresa May when she came to power, that worked out well didn't it?

Maybe they won't be able to afford not to.

There are a lot of very pissed off people out there.

Who knows?

I don't think people care whether the country as a whole is richer if they see none of it.

Hence the problem with having a government boasting about their "recovery" warning of what would happen to that recovery post-Brexit.

Most people are still earning less in real terms than they were in 2007.

So who cares if the recession that never went away comes back for the people experiencing the recovery?

Osbornomics are over.

They bear a good part of the blame for Brexit.

whatwouldrondo
I am still appalled at the attitude of the MPs I am trying to engage with. The fuckwit is absolutely completely denying he didn't run a proper Remain campaign. When I showed him the facts and figures and more and more people satarted questioning him, he turned to rhetoric. Then when I asked him to not evade my direct questions and asked him to reply to them (all extremely politely!), the fuckwit blocked me!!! then the other MP. I asked her the same questions. She of course replied with, of course, age old cliches and threw in a northern/southern card for good measure.
The third MP, who is my current MP, never gives a fuck about mundane things like Twitter.
I despair. The Remain camp was appalling because of all these MPs, these bloody career politicians who smell vote only. I still can't believe why no one in the Labour Party has so far challenged the MPs of the Labour voting Leave areas. It's beyond me. They must resign. I don't think it's Corbyn though I think he does have some faults. But the media just isn't giving him exposure. I for one didn't and still don't have much clue about his ex anti EU stance other than a vague idea that he wanted To renationalise Railways and I have no facts etc to probe it further. Renationalising railways make full sense to me by the way. These private contractors are just destroying us by increasing the fare fr above inflation rate. But that's another story.
Rhe summary of my whole rant and anger is this:

1. I have absolutely no clue why majority Leave voters voted for this economic suicide.
2. There was absolutely no plan whatsoever.
3. Majority MPs are as useful as a peice of used toilet roll. They ignored public's grievances. They are doing it again.

I think we just shouldn't go ahead. But I now suspect there is some other bigger issue behind all this. I think that going ahead with EU referendum in this vague manner was actually something the establishment wanted.

whatwouldrondo
About your point regarding May's speech being similar to Thatcher: DH said exactly the same.

I think we should actually come up with some kind of thread where, without being nasty to any Leaver, we should document the so called doom and gloom predicted before the vote and that's proving true now. That way we will have the time scale of predictions coming true. For example, I posted the article link yesterday. It took merely three weeks for that kind of aftermath to be assessed by the City etc. Or before that, BoE announcement that they won't decrease rates in July but very likely to do it in August.
That can then go on the Mumsnet Classic with the title "WE TOLD YOU SO!!"

Doingit - time will tell, of course, but I would be staggered if Brexit resulted in anything other than the rich/poor gap growing bigger. The Tories are going to be looking at how to entice investment into the country and that won't happen by having a fairer distribution of wealth.

When the London property market bombs watch rich foreign investors clean up.

Valentine There are already various websites seeking to document the consequences and / or hold the leave campaign to account. For reasons of pure lust I am particularly attracted to Chuka Ummuna's m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_577fb202e4b07a99eadc755a?edition=uk

There was a page calculating how much Boris owed the NHS somewhere.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/wells-fargo-to-buy-new-city-of-london-headquarters-for-expansion

Big US bank not put off London.

whatwouldrondo
Lol. Yeah sure but Mumsnet is my favourite place to have a cup of coffee. I love it here. LOVE YOU MUMSNET!!
Ok sorry that was embarrassing.
Second, I don't like Umunna's politics. And thats major turn off for me. But I admit that i saw the launch photos of the campaign to hold Leave campaign accountable for lies. of which he was the poster boy that day. I read the basic introduction only and I liked the fact that at least some part of Labour Party is focusing on the Leave campaign without being nasty to current leadership. Without using poor Remain campaign as an excuse to distract from the lies of the Leave. These dickhead MPs of Labour could topple Tories down after BREXIT vote has they been even a little bit united behind their current leader (of whose policies I don't endorse fully). Instead, they lost the chance of a century probably. And what sad is that it's the Labour voting North that will suffer.
Problem is, there is this severe lack of documented and clear information coming on from Corbyn's side about what their agenda is. I want to know what plans do they have for economy, for NHS, for education and for EU. I want to know how is it different from the Bliarite group. I want to know all this before I decide where would my vote go. It's definitely not Tories after the appalling Leave campaign of their major faces and the fact that it was Cameron who announced referendum. I was sympathetic (didn't vote) to them last GE. Never again.

Larry taking advantage of the cheap pound and the developers fire sale to consolidate staff already in London in four seperate rented buildings. Combination of developer anxious to offload and cheap pound making it a cheaper option for Wells Fargo than the Status Quo. So the developer loses (as it happens not British anyway) having sold the building off cheap, the landlords, no clue who they are, lose, as they will probably not achieve the same rent and it is generally a net loss to the British economy...... And it is just their UK operation, they already have operations in Dublin and Frankfurt so they have the passport risk covered.

Clinging to the snippets of not so bad news?

ARM holdings has been sold to a Japanese company. This isn't a directly Brexit-related development. It illustrates how easily our global assets lose control to foreign investors. Theresa May has expressed concern about this in the past; I share hers. However, we no longer have any mechanism for government to defend home industries - that's against neoliberal policy.

For anyone still confused, the UK's Conservative government follows strict neoliberalism - big business interests come first & foremost; market forces will take care of governance. The EU tries to enforce a balance of business interests with citizen well-being. Which is how the UK used to be, but we've shrugged off the well-being part since 2010.

Softbank have said they'll keep ARM's headquarters in the UK and double the staff. So it's OK for employment, but the company's profits and future are now Japanese.

If we want to be a world player, we're going to have to stop selling everything overseas.

Ehatwoulrondo,

The cup is always half empty for you....

The EU tries to enforce a balance of business interests with citizen well-being.

Tell that to the Greeks.

Or the Irish.

Larry One Swallow does not a spring make, not that it was a swallow just an owl finding a new nest......

Ah here, Ireland is a bit different to the Greeks. We were livid obviosuly and really feel our banks fecked up but we all enjoyed the gravy train while it lasted. Then we sucked up the pain and restrictions imposed and we are improving (well we were until Brexit might feck us over again).

The Greeks, well refusing to pay taxes and expecting all the benefits anyway.....a bit different

With the qualification that this reflects voter intention rather than actual votes, the correlation looks pretty solid to me.

It doesn't seem particularly surprising since progressive attitudes tend to be correlated with higher levels of education, and it is clear from other polls that educational attainment was one of the major factors determining voter intention.

Perhaps more interesting is the question someone raised earlier in the thread of what made people change their minds - would be keen to hear why previously neutral or remain-inclined voters decided on Leave over the months preceding the vote.

Sorry, wrong thread...

I am on holiday in the north east atm (lovely weather!! :))
I've been mulling this over today - this is an area with virtually no immigration/very little
It's a predominantly tourist driven economy
What the hell are they gong to do now they have had their say? (This area voted in large numbers to leave)
Since we first started coming here 8 years ago it's been transformed - apartments, colourful beach huts, shops...
All helped by EU funding
Why????
Just....why????

DoinItFine

Ask the Greeks why on Earth they bought expensive cars years ago, knowing very well they couldn't afford it.

Muck like the UK, the Greeks want to have their cake and eat it.

Much

apartments, colourful beach huts, shops...
All helped by EU funding
Why????
Just....why????
I will tell you why - this is not enough to shackle the country to the EU
how does any of that help real people with real lives
I live in the Welsh borders - another 'leave' area except we don't have apartments, colourful beach huts or 'lovely shops' what we do have is quiet lives that are sustainable without EU cash and we see nothing of benefit to being the EU and even if times are rough for a while I do not feel the need to sympathise with those in the 'rich 10%' who will lose their lovely foreign holidays, their second home abroad will lose value, their overpriced London pads might be worth less.
Just to be clear in my area the only geographical 'remain' spots were - the Cotswolds, Cheltenham, Warwick - now figure out why those areas were for 'remain' and the rest of us were for 'leave'