To feel really positive about leaving the EU

[kitty1976]

I know there has been lots of fear stories but in a few weeks since the vote we have managed to get a new PM who seems more than capable and we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU. The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out. Do remember we are now free to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world and most countries are not in the EU and seem to do well. There have been so many fear stories which have been peddled by self interest. I wonder in 5 years time how many remainers will be asking to rejoin the EU!!

Wonder if the positive feeling stretches as far as Sunderland..

Homeowners in northern England 'most vulnerable to negative equity'

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/14/northern-england-house-prices-negative-equity-moodys-bank-of-england

Housing sales forecast to fall sharply this summer after Brexit vote

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/14/housing-sales-forecast-to-fall-sharply-this-summer-after-brexit-vote

I've just read an interesting analysis, aptly titled "It's NOT the economy, stupid!"

Correlating the Brexit vote with core attitudes, researchers find it not so influenced by income or education, but by attachment to strong 'traditional' values such as harsher treatment of criminals & beefing up the military. This chart shows the correlation between "bring back hanging" and Brexit.

It rings true to me. I'm unsure about the details of the heat map in the article, but the sense of British Bulldogs feeling suspicious of Johnny Foreigner absolutely matches my experience in pre-referendum discussions. Even those with a competent grasp of international business, defence and politics were fiercely emotional about gaining/restoring "control" and things ain't what they used to be.

What is the statistical sample group for that graph?

I provided a link to the article Under the graph, it says "Figure 3, source: British Election Study 2015 Internet Panel, waves 1-3." Find it if you want to re-analyse it. I've done enough information-mining for other people on this topic.

Calm down dear, I asked a simple question.

Have had so will have a good look at the analytics tomorrow.

Ohwhata is Michael Winner or David Cameron lol

GarlicState

That reminds me of the study of Trump and Authoritarianism... can't find the article I was sent, but it's like this one.

Just wondering why people have to be so nasty?

Mymurphy - some people are just like that.

Top Trumps has started again (no pun intended !!)

YYY, snow. This element of all our societies has been ignored for too long, perhaps in hopes it will go away.

A very large proportion of people actually do want authoritarian governance, so they know where things stand - while simultaneously despising authoritarian regimes in other countries.

I heard an awful lot of sneering at neoliberalism, by people who'd never encountered the word before and really didn't know what it means. They were easily persuaded they don't like it because it says 'liberal' - as in woolly liberal, which is obviously a bad thing. Keywords were 'control' and 'borders', weren't they? It plays on fears of disorganisation, uncertainty, and loss.

Totally agree with the use of the word Neo liberal, far too many have no idea what it means.

Technically I prefer the word Hayekism, or in the modern era Friedmanism because Neo Liberal has been used for other not as stringent economic theories before.

This cropped up on my newsfeed.

I'm still waiting for Brexit new dawn plans to emerge. Perhaps OP could look through this explanation of likely consequences and put my mind at rest?

Thanks

lordstrange - yes that's an interesting article, however, it does highlight several things to me:

1. How much of a hold the EU has over its member countries
2. People can interpret and twist almost any article and make it fit with their way of thinking (see point 1)
3. I really didn't think we had so many Clairvoyants in this country

Time, what you call a hold over member states is actually teamwork. The EC cannot dictate to the members: they have to agree stuff.

It's only a hold over them in the same way as players in a football team have a hold over each other - they've got to play from their given positions and pass the ball between them.

What we've done is walk off the pitch and said we'll play all on our own.

I really didn't think we had so many Clairvoyants in this country

I don't need to be clairvoyant to foresee what will happen to the football player that stomps off the pitch. Other teams will go "Yeah! We'll give you a game!" because they're onto a sure thing. Poor old Team Of One will be knackered, sore, and 130-1 down by full time.

The really, really shit teams who can barely keep possession will kindly offer to form a team with him, because they know he can't hold the field on his own so will accept whatever crap terms they offer.

Yes, that totally does extrapolate to what's likely to happen with banking (we lose the European passport, we lose our biggest industry) and agriculture/manufacturing (crappy countries keen to do shitty deals with us.)

On the up side, we are still the money-laundering capital of the world. This business won't be badly affected by Brexit, as it avoids legal constraints by definition.

Interestingly, the UK blocked an EU decision to crack down on tax havens & regulatory avoidance. Now we have no say in it, that move's going ahead.

Putting on my clairvoyant hat, I'd say this will bring a very large amount of fresh, legal income to European governments while pushing more traffickers of humans, drugs and arms into London. Hurrah.

Garlic - the analogy is great but I don't know, is it teamwork? I'm not convinced, the rules have to be fair and accommodating to all players on that team.

The way I see it is, when our team captain paid the team manager a visit some months ago we were shown a red card. Naturally we were rightly peeved and yes we have stropped off (and I personally feel with good reason). Had the team manager just shown us a yellow card we might not have stropped off and we wouldn't be in this situation.

Just maybe we might end up being like the Icelandic or Welsh team and rise from the ashes and our player value will rise, we don't necessarily have to resign ourselves to the lower leagues for ever more.

Calm down dear

Just wondering why people have to be so patronising?

time4chocolate

The UK was the football player receiving the second highest salary on the team. Hence, he had an overinflated ego. He thought he should receive special treatment, unlike players No. 1 and 3. The team granted him some of his wishes (no Shengen, no Euro, etc.), despite him not being a team player at all.

A few months ago, he went to the team manager and asked for more. His list included:

• being exempt from an ever-closer team; he had to have some "Me time" after all... he'd also like to have a say in which matches he'd like to be playing in
• when family of other team members visited his home, he didn't want to have to reciprocate the hospitality he'd get when he visited their homes
• he didn't want to have to bail out other team players whose earnings were in a different currency to his
• he felt he had too much admin to do; this should be reduced

The team manager asked all the other 27 team players what they thought. Surprisingly, instead of just kicking Player No. 2 out, the team actually granted him about 70% of his wishes, hoping he'll finally shut up and just do his job.

Instead, he does a quick survey of his extended family to see what he should do. This includes his mother who thinks her baby is the greatest player of all times, an uncle who thinks he shouldn't have to be nice to the family members of other players in the team (it's only family blood that counts) and his sisters who really knew nothing about football at all and really wanted their brother to play an individual sport like tennis without knowing how good he'd be at it.

52% of his family members say he should leave the team.

He announces the survey results to the team with much fanfare. They obviously become quite annoyed at Player No. 2's sense of self-importance. In the immediate aftermath of his announcement, the currency he earns his wage in collapses, resulting in him now earning less than the previous Player No. 3 in dollar terms.

He also hasn't realised yet that he was only ever a good footballer because he had a capable team that managed to kick the balls towards him a few times. Now, they could potentially just keep the ball to themselves, not letting him have a go.

Silver lining: Without egotistical (previous) Player No. 2, the team can now gather together and step it up, allowing the other members who had been in the shadow of Player No. 2 to shine. Hopefully, they can gain inspiration from Portugal last weekend, which won the EuroCup without their star player.

To be fair, the team manager asked the other players, and begrudgingly, the team

begrudgingly the team what?? Need to know the rest please!

Your football player sounds like Christiano Ronaldo. He hasn't done so badly.

Agree with the "why does anyone have the need to be so nasty" thoughts.

And OP - still happy and optimistic here too.

The football analogy is ridiculous. Unless you know a team that fields an ever increasing number of players. I'm feeling optimistic OP as are most people I speak to.

croasroads3 Read it again. Some of it is in the brackets in the same sentence as "begrudgingly"!!!

I work for a large top university where the (independent) analysis from a wide range of world leading academics in disciplines as diverse as climate change and economics is that Brexit is a bad thing. Saw nothing saying is wasn't detrmental. These academics have earned their right to a view after years of relevant subject expertise and that view was 'no'. this wasn't a lobbying position, it was a research one. As Richard dawkins has recently said - HE wouldn't be in the position to make a judgement about the EU - only a small group are politically neutral and expert. Honestly, intelligence is surely about knowing your own limits and understanding who will give fair expert information and I despair at some of these threads