I've never met a brex regret

[TaleSpin]

Those reputed regretters...they must hang out in the psyches of rabid Remainers, for I sure ain't met one!

I've only met Remainers who wished they'd voted leave and a few non voters who would've voted leave too.

So it shows some from the other side too.

"Many want to deny it, but there has been downward pressure on wages, and a reluctance to train English people when immigrants come already trained. "

I think this is true. The fault, of course, is with the lack of training of a British workforce.

Northeroldie Would that be because you are older and northern? I am older and northern too and in the north I know only leave voters for a complete miriad of reasons ranging from the "we are full" mentality through thinking it is a route to greater social justice especially for non EU refugees and those wishing to come here to someone who thought the EU made the UK anti Russian (good luck with GB ever sympathising with Putin) . I also know a lot who woke up on the morning of the referendum and were shocked if not regretting their vote.

However I have lived overseas and now live in London and I know many people who felt part of Europe and woke up on the morning feeling physically sick. I have never felt so strongly about anything political in my life. I have lived in Asia and understand the strength of their rising economies and regional economic and geopolitical alliances. They will account for 50% of GDP by 2050. The general consensus in the Asian press is that Brexit is their biggest opportunity to overtake and exploit a broken Europe . I am afraid there is only derision at the stupidity of the UKs decision, pretty much the same in the US Press. That is why, just as if I didn't agree with the result of an election I am going to carry on campaigning to try and influence events so that we stay facing outwards globally and do all we can politically and economically to minimise the damage done by this vote. I believe a close relationship with Europe is absolutely vital to our ability to compete economically and our geopolitical position in the world.

I am afraid my perception is that leave voters think we should put up and shut up but that is not how democracy works (though obviously in Asia most countries do not have that luxury. In China the government is portraying Brexit as proof that democracy is the enemy of good and stable government) . Both sides have a right to keep expressing their views and let's just hope the consensus arising from what was essentially a draw steers us in a sensible direction.....

I am afraid my perception is that leave voters think we should put up and shut up but that is not how democracy works

To be fair neither is it democracy to stop leaving happening or telling leavers they are 'stupid' or 'don't know what they are doing' or the theory of 'we know what's best for you' which often comes a cross from Remain

I did vote remain but I think both sides need to think about what is being spouted.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/personal-values-brexit-vote/

this came up on Facebook for me which I found interesting as myself have seen over and over people talking about 'their democracy' in terms of authoritarianism, people forgetting that this is a free society.

People voted based on values and perceptions seems to give a much better correlation.

For predicting their vote from a starting point of 50/50
"Armed with information on region or their economic situation – income and social grade – your hit rate improves to about 54 percent, not much better than chance. In other words, the big stories about haves versus have-nots, or London versus the regions, are less important."

Interesting how wanting the death penalty which has nothing to do with the campaign correlates at 71%

"Disciplining children and whipping sex criminals (circled), keeping the nation safe, protecting social order and skepticism (‘few products live up to the claims of their advertisers…products don’t last as long as they used to’) correlate with Brexit sentiment. These attitude dimensions cluster within the third of the map known as the ‘Settlers’, for whom belonging, certainty, roots and safety are paramount. This segment is also disproportionately opposed to immigration in virtually every country Dade has sampled. By contrast, people oriented toward success and display (‘Prospectors’), or who prioritise expressive individualism and cultural equality (‘Pioneers’) voted Remain."

100% agree with the posters saying leavers are keeping quiet to avoid the abuse.

Can I ask leavers on here how you think the economy will be better if we leave the UK?

My understanding is that without the passport the City will (pretty much) up & leave London. I don't work in banking but I can't see how getting rid of something which makes this country billions can help.

We don't manufacture enough for a falling pound to be a wonderful thing.

(And that's before all the job losses). What is our wonderful economy going to be based on?

Piglet Obviously a democracy is in theory somewhere people play nicely and each citizen has been educated to make a rational decision on their vote based on weighing up the facts in the context of their lives. I agree we should have a default position of offering people on both sides the respect of assuming thet have done that.

However what about the role in this of the tabloid press who with vast readerships manipulated the facts and sought directly to influence both politicians and voters. And the politicians who fought a campaign in their own self interest on sound bites and through the influence they had via the Press. I think Theresa May is probably one of the politicians who has more respect for voters, and campaigned on the facts without resorting to hyperbole but she is perceived as being quiet as a result. But then who did she lunch with first after Cameron resigned? The Editor of the Daily Mail. The campaigns on both sides failed to respect the voters and their role in a democracy, and they are still whipping up resentment and directing it in all the wrong places . I think that is where we should be directing our resentment.

I live in Scotland, so have SMPs quibbling over stuff, then there are the UK MPs being paid to quibble about stuff, then there are MEPs whingeing about demanding stuff ( I sat that because at his last quarterly meeting my MEP voted for reports, reports on this, reports on that .... Then of course nothing in any report will be acted on unless every other country reads that report and decides to vote the same as him, no doubt by then several months down the line ....crazy what a crap time and money wasting , jobs for the boys system), and then there is the Eu commission and above that, I think, Eu council.... WTF who in their right mind could say this is a good way of doing stuff.
Rant over - anyway I feel positive and excited about leaving!!

Devilishpyjamas It is pretty much a given that a Conservative government will not give up the passport and the EU will not give it without a lot of concessions (Paris and Frankfurt have everything to gain from not giving it) Like it or not Maggie left us with an economy where financial services are the only part of our economy in surplus, sink that ship and the economy tanks before we have any chance to build up other sectors (who probably should have been better protected /encouraged). To those who thought you were voting to give bankers and big corporations less power, GB is far more reliant on them than the rest of the EU. And I don't work in banking but I do work in the City.

The mood here is by the way pragmatic, they will manage whatever the fallout is but they are not just playing with money, they are handling the investment that flows in and out of the U.K. And Europe, and that is based on economic activity, it is not games. If the UK does not earn it's keep by selling goods and services overseas then it will sink and it won't be the bankers fault.

Quiet because of the continual 'but what is THE PLAN?' requests. And maybe quiet now as we silently watch that PLAN unfold

Are you seriously suggesting that The Plan was for Gove & Boris to have their careers fucked and for the next PM to be a Remainer?

If they had a plan, why didn't they mention it after the Referendum? Why did they let the markets crash, when a Plan could have reassured them? Their lack of leadership was utterly contemptible.

And maybe quiet now as we silently watch that PLAN unfold

Interesting plan....

You'd almost think this was being made up as we go along.

There was no plan, don't worry. None of the leave side actually thought it possible that they would win.

Its why Farage and Boris conceded early and then had to change.

Its why they have both quit.

They can't quite believe that such a ramshackle campaign that promised everybody everything they ever wanted won, whilst being so liberal with the truth.

Maybe this is one of Baldrick's cunning plans?

whatwouldrondo No I'm in the southwest. An affluent area of majority white middleclass. Immigration certainly isnt the issue here and the would've been outers if voted, are very young and were for random reasons.
The In voter who wished they'd voted out is much older.

I was just trying to show there are ins/outs from both sides from all walks of life who may've wanted to change after the result.

I'm keen to see what Theresa May will do, and how parliament will pull together to make the changes.

The Plan was for Gove & Boris to have their careers fucked

That should be 'fuck their own careers up'.

But there is nothing to regret yet! We haven't Brexited.

It's looking like TM will invoke that chapter thingy in Sept/Oct, and then we'll have two years of working things out - and then we'll find out whether it's to be regretted or not.

Are you seriously suggesting that The Plan was for Gove & Boris to have their careers fucked and for the next PM to be a Remainer?

I'm just waiting for Mark Carney to pull Goves Mask off to find it was that Tony Blair all along.

(pic courtesy of s4.b3ta.com/host/creative/4270/1467976547/brexitclubCB.jpg)

Maybe Leave voters are happy with the result and getting on with other things.
Remainders aren't happy and need to tell everyone how bad things are/will be. Best let them get on with it and talk to each other.

As the "leavers" appear to be a group of people with a very wide bunch of end goals for the leave vote I'd imagine that most of their happiness will be short lived.

The vast majority will not get what they want, not even the ones that aimed for more democracy ( oh the irony of an having an unellected PM after a leave vote for more democracy)

oh the irony of an having an unellected PM after a leave vote for more democracy

I must admit to being a little goady over this, but in the face of all the 'taking back our democracy from an unelected undemocractic EU' it is ironic.

Re PLAN: Does it not occur that maybe politicians are getting on with what has to be done? I know some mumsnetters think they are very important..but do they really think that the absence of second-by-second reportage means nothing is happening? We voted on whether to remain or leave, the outcome was leave and thus the first part of the PLAN is to leave the EU.

Why all the sudden faith in our politicians to get things done when before the referendum Leave were adamant that they weren't competent? You do realise it's all the same lot of people shuffling about within the machinery, except ironically for the ringleaders of the Leave campaign ?

I know some mumsnetters think they are very important.. ooh you're not wrong there OP.

Tale, the reason why we know there is no plan is because each of the politicians involved in the Leave has either resigned or managed to not to get themselves on the ballot for election.

We know there isn't a plan because in the run up to leave there was no agreement on what goals we would be aiming for, and the ones that they have stated they were aiming for they have backtracked on.