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Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

429 replies

whydidhesaythat · 11/07/2016 20:59

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

OP posts:
EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/07/2016 08:15

I have been shocked just how easily nice liberal minded people have become so full of anger and openly despise the people who before they claimed to empathise with

How many of us who voted remain are feeling in the last few weeks is how so many people have felt for years it's become part of their lives and they saw a chance that things might change and took it I am sure I would have too

I was never totally in the remain camp the more I read the more I questioned the EU but according to many they were just to dumb to not know they will suffer more Hmm

If you have been suffering for years a few more years of hardship isn't going to frighten you if their is maybe a chance for things to change but it will certainly frighten people who haven't struggled it's the unknown for them

And as for the immigration issue big cities can take large numbers of people moving there the jobs are here the money is there the choice of public services use is wider smaller towns the impact is very different and other people in smaller towns will identify with those living in similar circumstances not someone with their report from Westminster with stats that do not take into account people's personal experiences

SnowBells · 12/07/2016 08:20

MustStop

A Leaver on another thread tried telling me that not all EU immigrants speak English when they come here, so I would turn that around and say the British can move without language skills, surely?!

Not sure the Irish are much better with European languages... but as a poster here pointed out, they have a 'culture' of moving, so apparently, that's fine. Something's not right when you put all these arguments together. Hmm

SnowBells · 12/07/2016 08:22

TheElementsSong

I'd much rather have the cat, to be honest!!! Wink

TheElementsSong · 12/07/2016 08:29

I have been shocked just how easily nice liberal minded people have become so full of anger and openly despise the people who before they claimed to empathise with

Me too. In the past weeks I have seen people suggesting that the assassination of Jo Cox was good publicity for Remain. I have seen people accusing academic experts (oh, that dirty word) of corruption without any evidence. I have seen people accusing those who report job losses of making it up. I have seen people accuse those who report racist incidents of making it up. I have seen people sneering at those who have admitted they are experiencing mental health issues due to the uncertainty. I have seen people sneering at foreign-born posters who expressed their worries about their uncertain future and telling them to leave. And I have seen many people eagerly seizing on comments made about individuals or small groups, and shrieking that ALL voters on "their side" are being attacked as a way of shutting down debate.

Namehanger · 12/07/2016 08:33

What theelementsong - yes

crossroads3 · 12/07/2016 08:35

I have seen people accuse those who report racist incidents of making it up. Me too - my husband AngrySad. Who said that just because the news tells us that there is a spike in racist assaults, doesn't mean it is true AngryAngry.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/07/2016 08:53

I know all that is happening but I don't know anyone personally who is supporting any is those ideas

But what I am hearing and seeing from people I know (not those on a faceless public forum) is people were so dumb now they will suffer so let them it's their fault because they are racist (I don't agree everyone who had voted leave is racist UKIP listened and swayed voters at the last election Labour didn't), they are lazy and they had their chance to move for work (why should they leave their families and support network), they are too stupid to understand the full impact of this vote (well that is the vast majority of us few have in depth knowledge of how the EU is set up and works) they will suffer more (many have suffered for years do you think a few more years will scare them)

These views are from liberal minded labour voters who would often sneer at people showing such anger against immigrants yet they are acting the same way

Those at bottom are always the ones that are kicked further down and it seems some are happy to carry on keeping them there

TheElementsSong · 12/07/2016 09:06

I don't agree everyone who had voted leave is racist

Argh Confused please not again with this! If anybody you personally know has said this, I hope you tore them a new one.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/07/2016 09:11

Yes I do

And yes I did

Maki79 · 12/07/2016 09:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

smallfox2002 · 12/07/2016 09:30

Totally agree elements.

I've heard expert opinion be dismissed on the most spurious reasons (Oxford Economics was dismissed because Oxford University takes part in Erasmus for example).

I've seen "suck it up buttercup" and remainers being told they lost and this is a democracy so they have to shut up (oh the irony).

Finding it funnier and funnier that the disparate groups banded together to get the leave vote will end up having none of what they want, and most of what they didn't.

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2016 09:33

"inding it funnier and funnier that the disparate groups banded together to get the leave vote will end up having none of what they want, and most of what they didn't."

I'd find it funny too- if I hadn't lost my sense of humour. Sad

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2016 09:36

There are plenty of people who based their vote to leave on sound well thought out arguments. But the most vocal ones on here and in real life are the ones who have based their decision on misunderstandings and actual untruths that are the most depressing.

smallfox2002 · 12/07/2016 09:38

"UKIP listened and swayed voters at the last election Labour didn't"

Rubbish, UKIP played on people's fears regarding immigration which had been over blown already by the media.

"they are too stupid to understand the full impact of this vote (well that is the vast majority of us few have in depth knowledge of how the EU is set up and works) they will suffer more (many have suffered for years do you think a few more years will scare them)"

Sorry, if you voted in this referendum as a protest vote, or as one in the eye for the elite you are pretty stupid. Things can and will get worse, the "suffering" will be worse because not only will there be less work in places like Sunderland, but benefits will be cut too, there won't be any EU money coming in and less taxes paid will mean even less public spending.

So yeah: "Things can't get any worse" what a load of rubbish.

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2016 09:45

Actually, I have absolutely no empathy, sympathy or time for anyone who used it as a protest vote. And yes, I do think that anyone who did this is stupid. The point of a protest vote is to give those in government a jerk on the leash- a "oi, we're watching you!" while not actually changing anything significantly. A warning that things might change at the next election if they don't buck their ideas up. Not to irreversibly change the structure of our society!

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/07/2016 09:47

So if they played on people's fears how did they know of them if they didn't listen. I know that is what they did but labour didn't bother listening at all for too long and just dismissed what they didn't what to deal with

I never said things won't get worse I said that the threat of things being difficult for a few more years didn't scare them

Maki79 · 12/07/2016 09:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

catbasilio · 12/07/2016 09:52

I am a remainer.
I do understand why people voted out. I really do.
I don't think this is the solution to the issues, though.
The problems and division between cities and regions will only deepen without EU support.
The best that could happen in this situation would be for EU to grant more autonomy to EU countries, especially on migration control. The best way to do it is through benefit caps.
Closing the border to EU will not deter the rest of the world coming to UK and claiming a better life to leavers' shock! Start with Calais camp....

TheElementsSong · 12/07/2016 09:55

It's not just faceless posters on a talkboard who were accusing people of making up racist attacks. This is from Arron Banks, who I'm sure Leave supporters will recognise as one of the leading lights of the (conveniently unofficial so everybody can pretend they never saw any of it) Leave.EU campaign.

pbs.twimg.com/media/CnAUncGXYAAs3rH?format=jpg&name=large

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2016 09:56

There's s big difference between actually wanting a change because you think things can't get worse- which is naive but understandable and a protest vote, which should just mean sending a message to government.

smallfox2002 · 12/07/2016 10:06

"So if they played on people's fears how did they know of them if they didn't listen"

Its fairly easy to "know of them" when its been on the agenda for a decade, Labour did make pledges regarding immigration btw, just not the absoultes that UKIP did.

I think the "scare" tactics were as much on the leave side as they were on the remain, just the remain side were actually far more viable. The leave side were Turkey joining, refugees flooding, fears of rape stoking, EU army and superstate scaring liars.

"Oh and by the way it's the people on the housing estates that look out for each other. In times of need, communities feed each other, look after each others children. I don't think theyll feel as badly hit as the first example."

To be honest when you make statements like this I feel fine about annoying you. Do you know what? The middle classes will be fine, cause they vote in every election, the middle classes will be fine because their education and assets (even if devalued) give them a safety net not available to the people on estates.

The people on estates who will have their benefits cut, who will be disproportionally effected by cuts to public spending (as they rely on public services more) and the ones who will see the government spending on attempts to revitalize their areas shrink.

This wasn't a vote about changing the social structure of the UK or improving the life chances of those at the bottom. If you voted out as a protest vote, you wasted it, and you shot yourself in the foot.

Winterbiscuit · 12/07/2016 10:06

there won't be any EU money coming in

That's because it will stay here in the first place! Grin

smallfox2002 · 12/07/2016 10:09

Oh no it won't winter, you realise the £350 million never existed, and that farmer subsidies will have to be paid etc.

Oh and that tax takes are going to be lower, so it probably won't even enter the treasury anyway even if it does it will be down to Westminster to decide where to spend it.

Surferjet · 12/07/2016 10:10

Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

No not really.
But having 'sides' is good for society imo. Arguing & disagreeing is what brings about change & moves us forward.
Everyone living in peaceful harmony is not something that is remotely achievable. ( you just have to look at the 'peace loving' lefties to know that )

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 12/07/2016 10:11

I know these things are happening I know there are racist attacks and people are denying it

I don't know anyone personally who voted leave who has said anything like that they are as appalled as I am

Some areas have seen so little change through labour, coalition government and Tory government (no doubt seen things get harder in last few years) what does a change of government do for them knowing good things done can so quickly be undone by the following government

The chance for such a huge change was too tempting and if our politicians were more in touch with many voters they would have relished that but they didn't and they are to blame